Worlds First Review - Dahua DH-IPC-HDW5849H-ASE-LED / IPC-Color4K-T - 2.8mm Turret

Just curious if any of you with the 4K-T have gotten the recently released (fixed focal) T54PRO-AS and have an opinion of it versus the 4K-T?

The 4K-T is 8MP with 1/1.2" sensor, whereas T54PRO-AS is 4MP with 1/1.8" sensor ... with the claimed(!) lux values of 0.005 and 0.004 in full color.
 
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tmxv4128 said:
Yep, but softness up close is the price paid for a large aperture and subsequent reduced depth of field.
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Very true but this is where a more sensitive sensor & slightly narrower aperture would help. The new 54Pros address this in a round about way for daytime by using variable iris. So you may still get Shallow focus at night, but in the day when it's bright & the aperture can be narrowed, the DOF should be much better. The compromise there, is the 54Pros are back on the 1/1.8 sensor. Proven, but without the light gathering ability of the 1/1.2. I think there's also some questions over lens quality with the 4kt. Then there's issues with processing power / memory, compression, & reboot scenarios. The 4Kt was the 1st of it's kind & it's probably due a refresh / replacement to address some of the shortcomings. I'm not rubbishing it here, they're all things that can be lived with / worked around to some extent. Just understand all cameras have achiles heals / issues.

I said it in another thread. The holy grail of low light was the camera Dahua produced in 2016 using possibly a Sony 7Sii sensor according to some reports. The issue was the price. If Dahua can get a deal with Sony over the sensor / processor & a cheap but decent lens, then I'm sure there's a market for it in the $400 range. The trouble was in 2016 it was £5k without the lens!

Failing that, I think Dahua really need to look at larger sensors maybe in the 1 inch range which are already common in action cams / phones & thus should be cheaper due to volume, or alternatively something in the 4/3 or APS-C range if costings allow. Unsure how the lower volume feeds in here to prices or if there's even a very sensitive sensor in the 4/3 APS-C size range. Again I'm sure manufacturers like Sony who might be afraid of the sensors being re-purposed could cut them down for CCTV use. After all, CCTV doesn't need 96 zone metering or 6 different methods. Only say 12 zone & centre wieghted / average. This immediately limits reuse if hardware nerfed. Just one example. Whatever they use, they must take a look at aperture vs sensor relationship & avoid the compromise they fell into with the 4kt and if NOT going down the non 7Sii route, they need to keep cost to around what the 4kt is now. Just my 2 cents on how the future should look.
 
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CCTVCam said:
Very true but this is where a more sensitive sensor & slightly narrower aperture would help. The new 54Pros address this in a round about way for daytime by using variable iris. So you may still get Shallow focus at night, but in the day when it's bright & the aperture can be narrowed, the DOF should be much better. The compromise there, is the 54Pros are back on the 1/1.8 sensor. Proven, but without the light gathering ability of the 1/1.2. I think there's also some questions over lens quality with the 4kt. Then there's issues with processing power / memory, compression, & reboot scenarios. The 4Kt was the 1st of it's kind & it's probably due a refresh / replacement to address some of the shortcomings. I'm not rubbishing it here, they're all things that can be lived with / worked around to some extent. Just understand all cameras have achiles heals / issues.

I said it in another thread. The holy grail of low light was the camera Dahua produced in 2016 using possibly a Sony 7Sii sensor according to some reports. The issue was the price. If Dahua can get a deal with Sony over the sensor / processor & a cheap but decent lens, then I'm sure there's a market for it in the $400 range. The trouble was in 2016 it was £5k without the lens!

Failing that, I think Dahua really need to look at larger sensors maybe in the 1 inch range which are already common in action cams / phones & thus should be cheaper due to volume, or alternatively something in the 4/3 or APS-C range if costings allow. Unsure how the lower volume feeds in here to prices or if there's even a very sensitive sensor in the 4/3 APS-C size range. Again I'm sure manufacturers like Sony who might be afraid of the sensors being re-purposed could cut them down for CCTV use. After all, CCTV doesn't need 96 zone metering or 6 different methods. Only say 12 zone & centre wieghted / average. This immediately limits reuse if hardware nerfed. Just one example. Whatever they use, they must take a look at aperture vs sensor relationship & avoid the compromise they fell into with the 4kt and if NOT going down the non 7Sii route, they need to keep cost to around what the 4kt is now. Just my 2 cents on how the future should look.
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If a camera existed which had a large sensor like the 4K-T, Sony would be nice, personally I would happily pay $300-400 for that low light monster, all day long. There are certain cases where I might even stretch to $500 if the output was worth the cost. I guess the problem is demand, most installers and home users probably would not be prepared to pay for such a camera, where as we might well do so. I look forward to testing the 4K-T's which are now arriving Monday, might even switch out the 54Pro ZE I have been testing to compare directly, oddly enough it is the camera I am most interested to trial. Soon as somebody mentions Sony sensor and Dahua in the same breath, I am ready to buy one.
 
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FYI that the 4K-T is FIXED iris ... as is the T54PRO-AS ... so I assume those fixed focal length cameras always run wide open and therefore shutter speed and gain are your exposure controls.

The vari-focals (5442-S3, T54PRO-ZE) can change iris/aperture ... so you have the full "triangle" to play with ... and if need be, you can close it down for more depth-of-field ... with the obvious trade-off that you'll have to reduce shutter speed and/or bump gain/ISO.

P.S. Amen @CCTVCam that I would pay $300-$400 for a low light monster. As pointed out, very large aperture (and sensor!) camera's have less DOF ... but especially if you have a "survey" camera with most everything of interest at least 15-20' away, shouldn't be much of an issue.
 
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This is my go-to low light camera. I have 6 of them. At one time Andy sold these and I bought a couple off of him. It comes with the 1/1.2" sensor and has a .0005 LUX rating.

Hikvision DS-2CD2087G2-L ColorVu 8MP Outdoor Network Bullet Camera with 4mm Lens​

 
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CamCrazy said:
If a camera existed which had a large sensor like the 4K-T, Sony would be nice, personally I would happily pay $300-400 for that low light monster, all day long. There are certain cases where I might even stretch to $500 if the output was worth the cost. I guess the problem is demand, most installers and home users probably would not be prepared to pay for such a camera, where as we might well do so. I look forward to testing the 4K-T's which are now arriving Monday, might even switch out the 54Pro ZE I have been testing to compare directly, oddly enough it is the camera I am most interested to trial. Soon as somebody mentions Sony sensor and Dahua in the same breath, I am ready to buy one.
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As per above, the Camera did exist but it cost @ $5k + lens + enclosure & heater + wiper etc. I think the final bill was approaching $10k from the 1 person on here who bought one. That said, the performance was sublime, at least with the lens they fitted. It might be asking a lot to see that at $400, but then again nearly 10yrs have passed & with not much of a market for that sensor / processor combo & them surely having paid back their investment costs, it's not hard to imagine they could be sold at a reasonable price if the manufacturer so desired & the camera could perhaps have a built in case etc keeping the costs down. Whether enough of a low price to make a $400 cam is another matter.

I haven't tried the Hik Parley has. I believe at the time the 4kt and this were very close with many saying the Dahua had the edge in low light, so I think the majority on here went the Dahua route. I'd say the time for an updated version applies to the Hik as well as the Dahua given the time they've been out. There is only 1 answer to low light I'm aware of and that's a larger and more sensitive sensor as there's only so much you can do with AI. Ultimately photos & video require photons.
 
The more I think about this, makes me realise how great it would be to have a $500 large sensor, low light camera, particularly one which was able to run with IR and not just colour only at night. Is there nothing else close to these 8MP models right now for sensible money. What budget do you step up to for such a piece of kit? if it exists. Anyway, that is for another thread I guess, don't want to derail this one.
 
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UI has a $1,500 camera based on a 4/3" sensor with a choice of two interchangeable F/1.2 lenses. The price includes one lens.
store.ui.com

Camera AI DSLR - Ubiquiti Store

Indoor/outdoor 4K PoE camera with exceptional image quality and impressive low-light performance.
store.ui.com store.ui.com

Sensor
4/3" 10MP CMOS
8MP 3840 x 2160 (16:9)
Lens
M. Zuiko Digital ED 17 mm ƒ/1.2 PRO; H: 52°, V: 39°, D: 65°
M.Zuiko Digital ED 45 mm ƒ/1.2 PRO; H: 21.6°, V: 16.2°, D: 27°

On bhphoto either of these lenses lists for $1,600! As far as I can tell this is the same lenses that UI uses.
No idea on actual low light capabilities or video quality.
 
quest100 said:
UI has a $1,500 camera based on a 4/3" sensor with a choice of two interchangeable F/1.2 lenses. The price includes one lens.
store.ui.com

Camera AI DSLR - Ubiquiti Store

Indoor/outdoor 4K PoE camera with exceptional image quality and impressive low-light performance.
store.ui.com store.ui.com

Sensor
4/3" 10MP CMOS
8MP 3840 x 2160 (16:9)
Lens
M. Zuiko Digital ED 17 mm ƒ/1.2 PRO; H: 52°, V: 39°, D: 65°
M.Zuiko Digital ED 45 mm ƒ/1.2 PRO; H: 21.6°, V: 16.2°, D: 27°

On bhphoto either of these lenses lists for $1,600! As far as I can tell this is the same lenses that UI uses.
No idea on actual low light capabilities or video quality.
Click to expand...
Imagine spending 1500 on a ubiquiti camera.
 
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