Review - EmpireTech IPC-T54PRO-AS 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP WizColor

[cctvtech]

You said it yourself, that your S3s are ZOOMED IN to the max. I said exactly that, they have to be zoomed 40-50% (or more). Zoomed out the image quality suffers, Also it seems you are referencing the bullets and we are talking about the Turrets. 99% of what I use is 4MP. I have 17 of the 5442 and 5842 S3s on the last job I did, including 4x 8MP and a mix of zoom/fixed lens.

 

[wittaj]

My S3 turret isn't zoomed in and replaced an S2 and is a better image.

 

[bigredfish]

I havent used the 5442 bullets yet. I have the Zoom dome in S2 and S3 and the S3 introduced a much poorer image. I use the S2 on a junction to capture accidents with no AI, plus doing face detection at a local business entrance. Now I have dozens of S3 in the field.

I found the 4/8MP S3 need to be at least 40-50% zoom or the image really suffers for any kind of digital zoom/evidence sharing, the S2 had less issues with that, the new chips changed it considerably. I generally only use them zoomed in anyway. Though the fixed lens 4MP also suffers in wide angle for digital zoom. I do use them for small areas and they are good in low light, but if I want clarity I get the 8MP model .. then its darker at night but have to take the good with the bad. I have run the 8MP in 4MP or lower and still got a better image than the 4MP 5442 in 4MP.

My ONLY reason for using the 5442/5882 now is for the AI. I use other Dahua cameras for anything else. I only use the 8MP zoom at car park entrances or where vehicle/human/face pickup is further away than the 4MP can capture. I have 17 AI cams on my last job. Avg clients have 32-64 cameras. Only using Face Rec and Metadata right now as the 608 NVR firmware had issues with Acupick.

Last thing to add is with either of them when you use Face Detect or Metadata the image will get worse and you need to adjust it.
So only use AI if you need to. I have the 4MP Starlight and I could not even use AI on that as the picture was so bad with it enabled. Instead I enabled the NVRs face detection. Also default settings revert to a messed up shutter that causes lines and darker image. Firmware bug in all of the S3s.

I dont even know where to start.

• You're referring to digital zoom multiple times. Digital zoom on ANY camera creates artifacts and is a poor replacement for the proper optical zoom/lens
• I would like to see an 8MP camera (what model?) running in 4MP resolution that outperforms a 5442 S3 at night in low light which are as the model number suggests, 4MP
• The 5849 ASE LEDs with the 1/1.2 sensor are great cameras. But they are limited in their lens choices and close focus distance. They are S2 and have not/will not likely be updated to S3. So yes given enough light (no IR on these) they can perform very well
• What "other cameras" do you use that aren't AI that you "use for anything else"?
• Can you show an example of a 5442 or 5842 where using VMD makes the "image will get worse and you need to adjust it??
• Do you leave most of these cameras you install at default settings?
• What model camera is this referring to? "4MP Starlight and I could not even use AI on that as the picture was so bad with it enabled.?
• What? "Also default settings revert to a messed up shutter that causes lines and darker image. Most default settings do the opposite as they are set from that factory at 1/30 and made to be very bright.
• What fw bug? " Firmware bug in all of the S3s."

Would love to see video/picture examples of some of your claims. Maybe I’ll learn something

Have you tried the new 5459 or 5859 ZE PV PRO cams? They’re very bright. Sounds like you would like them

 

[wittaj]

Oh, good call on the digital zoom. I missed that.

Optical Zoom will beat digital zoom every time.

That is the whole point of a varifocal camera - to optically zoom to the area you want quality.

There is even an entire thread about it.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

And no chance you run the 8MP as a 4MP and beat the native 4MP....

Downrezing a camera does not work - It is still using the 8 million pixels - the camera doesn't change the "pixel resolution screen" on the camera when you go from 8MP to 4MP. The sensor still needs 2 times the light going from 8MP to 4MP, so the native 4MP camera will result in a better image at night. The firmware will make some algorithm attempt at downrezing it, but it could be a complete crap image or a somewhat usable image, but if there is a concern that the 8MP isn't performing or wouldn't perform well at night, then it is better to go with the 4MP.

I have a 4MP and 2MP on the same 1/2.8" sensor and the picture quality is quite different between the two and the 2MP kicks it's butt at night.

In most instances, you want to get a camera that will perform at your location for the worse situation, which for most of us is at night when it is dark and there is little to no light. If a camera performs at night, it is easier to tweak settings to make it work during the day than it is the other way around.

My 2MP cameras outperform my neighbors 4K (8MP) cameras....why....because they are both on the same size sensor.

When we had a thief come thru here and get into a lot of cars, the police couldn't use one video or photo from anyone's system but mine. Not even my other neighbors $1,300 8MP system provided useful info - the cams just didn't cut it at night.

My neighbor tried the "I will just downrez the 8MP to 2MP" and the image was a soft dark mess.

His system wasn't even a year old and after that event has started replacing cameras based on my recommendation and seeing my results. He is still shocked a 2MP camera performs better than his 4k cameras and he cannot figure out why downrezing from 8MP to 2MP doesn't work properly... It is all about the amount of light needed and getting the right camera for the right location and downrezing doesn't change the physics of the camera.



Here is a real world example. The 49225 is a 2MP PTZ on the 1/2.8" sensor. It deems it has enough light at a 1/60 shutter so it stays in color:

Here is the 49425, which is the same camera as the 49225 except is a 4MP on the same 1/2.8" sensor as the 49225.

Here is the first big issue you see with a double the resolution on the same size sensor - It deems that it does not have enough light to run in color at a 1/60 shutter so it goes to B/W with Infrared:

Oh let me try downrezing the 4MP to 2MP, that should help.....

The first thing you notice is that downrezing the 4MP 49425 down to a 2MP doesn't result in the camera being able to run color like the native 2MP 49225 as the sensor still doesn't see enough light to run in color because the 4MP "pixel screen" simply isn't letting enough light get into the optics of the sensor.

That is a big deal with low light conditions and why you want to go with a native resolution and preferably a camera on the ideal MP/sensor ratio that is talked about here often. The native resolution may be able to be in color, but the higher resolution on the same size sensor probably won't with low light conditions.

Then in this case, you can see that the 4MP was struggling to even give definition compared to the 2MP. It is wet out so the rain reflections is wreaking havoc with the infrared and focus.

So when I downrezed but kept the bitrate the same, it still looks like a soft mess. Even if there is less noise in this instance, it still doesn't look as good as the native resolution.

As always YMMV and I am sure the newer cameras are improved over when this camera came out, but even so I don't think we will see a higher MP downrez come close to the performance of a native MP on the same size sensor because the higher MP just isn't letting enough light into the optics as the lower MP on the same size sensor.

And the less light that is available, the bigger the difference one will see. Personally, for me the difference between being able to run it in color versus B/W is enough of a reason to go with the camera that is on the ideal MP/sensor ratio talked about here so much.

 

[wittaj]

From the thread I pointed out above, here is a great example of two images taken at the same time (early AM while still dark out) of the same person 60 feet away from just slightly different angles - one from the S2 version of 5442-ZE 4MP set to 3.6mm that I digitally zoomed to make the person about the same size as the person in the 2MP varifocal optically zoomed.

The digitally zoomed image of this 3.6mm focal length of a 4MP on the ideal MP/sensor ratio could not be used by police to IDENTIFY. This camera is added by white light AND infrared, so it is getting more total light than the 2MP.

Meanwhile this 2MP camera OPTICALLY zoomed with the higher focal length to capture IDENTIFY at this distance is better than the 4MP on the ideal MP/sensor ratio that was DIGITAL zoomed.

In case someone cannot figure it out, the 4MP that is digitally zoomed in is the B&W picture and the 2MP varifocal optically zoomed in is the color picture LOL.

I think most would agree that the optically zoomed 2MP picture beats the digitally zoomed 4MP picture - you can make out details and read some of the signage and make out bolts, etc. that are just a blur on the 4MP, which is being benefited by the same light the 2MP camera is getting plus the IR.