Replacement cameras with a hitch

JPmedia

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Sep 11, 2024
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I'm looking to replace the last 3 Lorex turret cameras in the system before they get too expensive or many of the cameras are discontinued.

I need to replace the 2 crisscrossing cameras in the driveway and the other one near the front door. The hitch? They have to run in color at night since the neighbor's corner house (my buddy whose house sits at a 45 degree) has a shit ton of IR blasters on his house and his fence. Running in BW, the cameras would be useless at night.

So, I guess that leaves out the 54IR since it does not have white LEDs that would be needed for nighttime. I think the only option would be the Color4M-T, yes?
 
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Even running higher shutters you get blinded by the lights (song reference LOL)?

Maybe you should try the 4MTL that is supposedly the next best thing (cross referencing LOL).

Personally I find the 4M-T to be a decent camera if one wants the white lights and two way audio.
 
Even running higher shutters you get blinded by the lights (song reference LOL)?

Maybe you should try the 4MTL that is supposedly the next best thing (cross referencing LOL).

Personally I find the 4M-T to be a decent camera if one wants the white lights and two way audio.
He has 6 of the 6" x 12" IR blasters running at night. Being backlit, the camera will be useless with that much IR

What is the 4MTL? Never heard of that model
 
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This camera?

 
This camera?



I'm not even sure with all the new models on Dahua's site and Andy's part #s?

Is that the TIOC Color4M-T but without IR?
 
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I don't need the two-way audio

I was just throwing that out there as an added benefit.

Personally I find the 4M-T to do a fine job. This is a 1/120 shutter with the camera only having the benefit of the camera white light of my two-faced neighbor (LOL) jogging past the camera. Seems like sufficient surveillance image to me.

1777510685693.png


One person here claims the much cheaper 4M-TL is even better than the 5442 series and classifies the 4M-T as junk, even though the 4M-T is the higher line Dahua 3449 series compared to the lower line 4M-TL Dahua 2449 series with underpowered SOC. The 4M-TL is white light only. But the same person also has not provided any video or stills of an object in motion to support their claim.....
 
I was just throwing that out there as an added benefit.

Personally I find the 4M-T to do a fine job. This is a 1/120 shutter with the camera only having the benefit of the camera white light of my two-faced neighbor (LOL) jogging past the camera. Seems like sufficient surveillance image to me.

View attachment 242806


One person here claims the much cheaper 4M-TL is even better than the 5442 series and classifies the 4M-T as junk, even though the 4M-T is the higher line Dahua 3449 series compared to the lower line 4M-TL Dahua 2449 series with underpowered SOC. The 4M-TL is white light only. But the same person also has not provided any video or stills of an object in motion to support their claim.....
I think the image you posted from the 4M-T is fine in a nighttime situation. I have a single 4M-T here new in the box

I can't see how a $110 dollar camera can outperform a $190 camera, and by leaps and bounds according to the poster. I think there are huge differences in the settings and/or installation for the 4MT-L to have a superior image. I mean, is the lense clean on the 5442? It sure doesn't look it

I would wait until some of the regular reviewers have had a chance to test the 4M-TL.
 
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Looks like the 4M-TL resolution is slightly less at frame rates over 20 fps:

  • Outputs max. 4 MP (2688 × 1520) @20 fps, and supports 2560×1440 (2560 × 1440) @25/30 fps.
I wonder why?
 
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I thought what the heck, let me see if I can find some Dahua 2449TL (4M-TL) videos.

Here is one to show how bright the image is with just ambient light from the distance, but it won't ID a person.

1777548327107.png

Look how bright the static image is, but it won't ID a person.

1777548645694.png

As I have mentioned, I think it makes for a good OVERVIEW camera as the AI is allowing a brighter static image, but as we all know, that comes at the cost of motion blur. Simple physics.
 
I think the image you posted from the 4M-T is fine in a nighttime situation. I have a single 4M-T here new in the box

I can't see how a $110 dollar camera can outperform a $190 camera, and by leaps and bounds according to the poster. I think there are huge differences in the settings and/or installation for the 4MT-L to have a superior image. I mean, is the lense clean on the 5442? It sure doesn't look it

I would wait until some of the regular reviewers have had a chance to test the 4M-TL.
I bought the camera for even cheaper. 86,98 US-Dollar
 
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I thought what the heck, let me see if I can find some Dahua 2449TL (4M-TL) videos.

Here is one to show how bright the image is with just ambient light from the distance, but it won't ID a person.

View attachment 242818

As I have mentioned, I think it makes for a good OVERVIEW camera as the AI is allowing a brighter static image, but as we all know, that comes at the cost of motion blur. Simple physics.
The individuals in the foreground should be identifiable at that relatively short distance, but they are not. Other than identifying there are two individuals here and the colors of their clothes (which, who knows if that is accurate), there really is nothing useful in the image
 
No, it's still in the box. I might be able to set it up in the garden today. However, there's hardly any light in the garden at night.

That is perfect. We know how the 5442 series performs with hardly any light, and claims are being made this 4M-TL beats the 5442 in every lighting condition.

I think most of us will agree with the new PRO series does beat the 5442 in a static image competition with low light, but we are not using these cameras to enter still images at the County fair.

Most of us agree that no other light other than what the camera produces is worse case scenario that we want the camera to perform in!
 
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He has 6 of the 6" x 12" IR blasters running at night. Being backlit, the camera will be useless with that much IR

What is the 4MTL? Never heard of that model
The Color4M-TL shouldn't mind being backlit by IR light, but the IR light will be of no use to it as it has a permanent IR filter in place.

I'm not even sure with all the new models on Dahua's site and Andy's part #s?

Is that the TIOC Color4M-T but without IR?
No, it is not a TiOC camera. It's like the Color4K-T, with identical high light sensitivity, white LED illuminators and a permanent IR filter, but under half the resolution (1440p vs 2160p), a single mic, and no aux pigtail. Dahua part number IPC-HDW2449T-S-PRO.

Looks like the 4M-TL resolution is slightly less at frame rates over 20 fps:
  • Outputs max. 4 MP (2688 × 1520) @20 fps, and supports 2560×1440 (2560 × 1440) @25/30 fps.
I wonder why?
Because it has a 1440p sensor and has to interpolate the image to 1520p when you use that resolution. If you set it to 1520p, you may notice a grid-like sharp/blur pattern in some scenes due to the cheap rescaling algorithm they used. Use it at its native 1440p; there is nothing to gain with the higher resolution on that camera, and Dahua has wisely removed it on V2. Regarding the claim that the SOC "lacks the power", I was able to force it to do 30fps using CGI and it seemed to work fine (this is also how I make Dahua cameras output a key frame every 250 frames, something another member was mocking me about as being "not possible"). I have since dropped back to 1440p to lose the resizing grid artifacts.

I was just throwing that out there as an added benefit.

Personally I find the 4M-T to do a fine job. This is a 1/120 shutter with the camera only having the benefit of the camera white light of my two-faced neighbor (LOL) jogging past the camera. Seems like sufficient surveillance image to me.
View attachment 242806

One person here claims the much cheaper 4M-TL is even better than the 5442 series and classifies the 4M-T as junk, even though the 4M-T is the higher line Dahua 3449 series compared to the lower line 4M-TL Dahua 2449 series with underpowered SOC. The 4M-TL is white light only. But the same person also has not provided any video or stills of an object in motion to support their claim.....
That looks like an image from the original release (pre-WizColor) firmware of that camera. Even still, see how low resolution that image is! I'm not talking about the dimensions of the photo you uploaded, but rather the blurry/fuzzy image and poorly defined, artificial texture of the grass. Like that, the quality difference between sub stream at 720p and main stream at 2K would be nearly identical! Admittedly though, it did a great job freezing the subject (it also has a significantly brighter white light than the 4M-TL which helps with this). Without placing the 4M-TL side by side, it would be hard to say how it would compare with this besides being brighter and sharper. I do doubt it would've frozen the subject quite this well, but it probably could be adjusted to do a satisfactory job. Unfortunately, one downside of WizColor 1.0 is that as you speed the shutter up (even with gain limited), the 3D NR gets more aggressive, resulting in motion blur either way unless you have sufficient light. Not sure why they programmed it that way as noise is a gain thing, not a shutter speed thing—this could be fixed with a firmware update if they were smart/cared enough.
Any? Not true. I have repeatedly pointed y'all to my Amazon review, which includes a side-by-side of the 2449 (Color4M-TL) and 3449 (Color4M-T/TiOC) depicting a deer walking in the early morning, right as it swung its head (the difference in angle between the two cameras is due to the 2449 being about a yard to the left of the 3449). In that picture, the cheap 2449 has a sharp image (this may be reduced by your browser scaling the image; copy it and paste into an image viewer to see the original 1:1 image) and no motion blur. Whereas the expensive 3449 has a fuzzy image with a weird color balance, motion blur, and a further blurry zone around the moving deer (it applies another round of 2D NR to moving objects, which clears up a few frames later if they stop moving—effectively lowering the resolution of moving objects in an attempt to reduce graininess; it does this regardless of the 2D NR setting, unlike the 2449). I did most of my testing of the 3449 with firmware V3.140.0000000.10.R.250226, and can't say if the image quality has improved since then as I returned the camera.

I thought what the heck, let me see if I can find some Dahua 2449TL (4M-TL) videos.

Here is one to show how bright the image is with just ambient light from the distance, but it won't ID a person.
View attachment 242817

Look how bright the static image is, but it won't ID a person.
View attachment 242818

As I have mentioned, I think it makes for a good OVERVIEW camera as the AI is allowing a brighter static image, but as we all know, that comes at the cost of motion blur. Simple physics.
Another example of why I will not provide any quick demos here. What this doesn't show you is that a 5442 (in forced color mode to be fair) would have produced an almost completely black image in this scene, and what little of the subjects was even visible at all would be lost in grain, blurred by 2D NR, and ghosted by 3D NR. You need a side-by-side comparison of all your target cameras to make a fair determination! If you were being honest, you should have recognized what lighting was present in this video and realized that none of the cameras you have would've done this well in the same scene with the same lighting. A mere phone flashlight would have blown the second picture out. The washed out face in the first picture? That's just illumination from his phone screen—there's almost no light present! But: "Gotcha, see how bad that camera motion blurs? It's a terrible camera!" You're lucky you had any image at all; and because this camera can do this, everyone punishes it by turning the lights out. Turning the camera's built-in white LEDs on manual 100% would've totally changed the image (they were on manual 0% in that video, with a shutter speed of 1/12 sec).
As I have characterized many times: The Color4M-TL performs on a similar level to the Color4K-T when it comes to light sensitivity and motion blur; both cameras usually need supplemental light (their own, or external) to capture moving objects with reasonable clarity at night. The fact that the Color4M-TL can pull in an image and even have IVS work in near total darkness is a novelty. But if stealth/darkness is the point, you need an IR-capable camera. Sadly, the compromise of these two (the "Smart Illumination" mode) on the white light cameras doesn't allow the onboard white LED to turn on/brighten when motion is detected (it is useful on the dual light cameras, switching from IR mode to color mode and turning on the white LED). I've been playing around with a BI-triggered script that uses CGI to control the camera LEDs to simulate this with tolerable results.

No, it's still in the box. I might be able to set it up in the garden today. However, there's hardly any light in the garden at night.
Without any light, it will motion blur, just like any other camera. As I have said, it is not magic. Don't join the ranks of all the people who've uploaded countless streaky videos to YouTube of this camera showing off its "no light" capabilities just to let the other members here chortle "See all the motion blur!" If you're going to test motion performance to share here, at least set Fill Light to White Light Mode, Mode to Manual, and Brightness to 100 during the test. And don't forget the other settings I've posted about—the defaults are quite disappointing.
 
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The Color4M-TL shouldn't mind being backlit by IR light, but the IR light will be of no use to it as it has a permanent IR filter in place.


No, it is not a TiOC camera. It's like the Color4K-T, with identical high light sensitivity, white LED illuminators and a permanent IR filter, but under half the resolution (1440p vs 2160p), a single mic, and no aux pigtail. Dahua part number IPC-HDW2449T-S-PRO.


Because it has a 1440p sensor and has to interpolate the image to 1520p when you use that resolution. If you set it to 1520p, you may notice a grid-like sharp/blur pattern in some scenes due to the cheap rescaling algorithm they used. Use it at its native 1440p; there is nothing to gain with the higher resolution on that camera, and Dahua has wisely removed it on V2. Regarding the claim that the SOC "lacks the power", I was able to force it to do 30fps using CGI and it seemed to work fine (this is also how I make Dahua cameras output a key frame every 250 frames, something another member was mocking me about as being "not possible"). I have since dropped back to 1440p to lose the resizing grid artifacts.


That looks like an image from the original release (pre-WizColor) firmware of that camera. Even still, see how low resolution that image is! I'm not talking about the dimensions of the photo you uploaded, but rather the blurry/fuzzy image and poorly defined, artificial texture of the grass. Like that, the quality difference between sub stream at 720p and main stream at 2K would be nearly identical! Admittedly though, it did a great job freezing the subject (it also has a significantly brighter white light than the 4M-TL which helps with this). Without placing the 4M-TL side by side, it would be hard to say how it would compare with this besides being brighter and sharper. I do doubt it would've frozen the subject quite this well, but it probably could be adjusted to do a satisfactory job. Unfortunately, one downside of WizColor 1.0 is that as you speed the shutter up (even with gain limited), the 3D NR gets more aggressive, resulting in motion blur either way unless you have sufficient light. Not sure why they programmed it that way as noise is a gain thing, not a shutter speed thing—this could be fixed with a firmware update if they were smart/cared enough.
Any? Not true. I have repeatedly pointed y'all to my Amazon review, which includes a side-by-side of the 2449 (Color4M-TL) and 3449 (Color4M-T/TiOC) depicting a deer walking in the early morning, right as it swung its head (the difference in angle between the two cameras is due to the 2449 being about a yard to the left of the 3449). In that picture, the cheap 2449 has a sharp image (this may be reduced by your browser scaling the image; copy it and paste into an image viewer to see the original 1:1 image) and no motion blur. Whereas the expensive 3449 has a fuzzy image with a weird color balance, motion blur, and a further blurry zone around the moving deer (it applies another round of 2D NR to moving objects, which clears up a few frames later if they stop moving—effectively lowering the resolution of moving objects in an attempt to reduce graininess; it does this regardless of the 2D NR setting, unlike the 2449). I did most of my testing of the 3449 with firmware V3.140.0000000.10.R.250226, and can't say if the image quality has improved since then as I returned the camera.


Another example of why I will not provide any quick demos here. What this doesn't show you is that a 5442 (in forced color mode to be fair) would have produced an almost completely black image in this scene, and what little of the subjects was even visible at all would be lost in grain, blurred by 2D NR, and ghosted by 3D NR. You need a side-by-side comparison of all your target cameras to make a fair determination! If you were being honest, you should have recognized what lighting was present in this video and realized that none of the cameras you have would've done this well in the same scene with the same lighting. A mere phone flashlight would have blown the second picture out. The washed out face in the first picture? That's just illumination from his phone screen—there's almost no light present! But: "Gotcha, see how bad that camera motion blurs? It's a terrible camera!" You're lucky you had any image at all; and because this camera can do this, everyone punishes it by turning the lights out. Turning the camera's built-in white LEDs on manual 100% would've totally changed the image (they were on manual 0% in that video, with a shutter speed of 1/12 sec).
As I have characterized many times: The Color4M-TL performs on a similar level to the Color4K-T when it comes to light sensitivity and motion blur; both cameras usually need supplemental light (their own, or external) to capture moving objects with reasonable clarity at night. The fact that the Color4M-TL can pull in an image and even have IVS work in near total darkness is a novelty. But if stealth/darkness is the point, you need an IR-capable camera. Sadly, the compromise of these two (the "Smart Illumination" mode) on the white light cameras doesn't allow the onboard white LED to turn on/brighten when motion is detected (it is useful on the dual light cameras, switching from IR mode to color mode and turning on the white LED). I've been playing around with a BI-triggered script that uses CGI to control the camera LEDs to simulate this with tolerable results.


Without any light, it will motion blur, just like any other camera. As I have said, it is not magic. Don't join the ranks of all the people who've uploaded countless streaky videos to YouTube of this camera showing off its "no light" capabilities just to let the other members here chortle "See all the motion blur!" If you're going to test motion performance to share here, at least set Fill Light to White Light Mode, Mode to Manual, and Brightness to 100 during the test. And don't forget the other settings I've posted about—the defaults are quite disappointing.
I guess we just have to accept that you and I (or we for many of us here) have different goals for the camera setup.

Since it sounds like you are an installer, we all know the uninformed general public loves nice bright images, so I can see why your setups would favor a brighter image.

And no doubt we all agree that the PRO series line of cameras, whether it be the lower or higher end, will produce a brighter static image than the 5442 series.

But the other videos of the 2449 with the lights on still show a ton of motion blur/ghosting. Likely because of the default settings these people use to make the image brighter or in @bigredfish on the other PRO camera, the faster shutter made the firmware overcompensate and resulted in half the person missing.

And again, for an OVERVIEW camera, this might be a good choice.

But we generally have much better options for OVERVIEW cameras now.

If I have a 2.8 or 3.6mm camera, I don't care how dark the image is or the fact that it can't see 50 feet out. I want it to be ID quality at the key 15-20 foot range. And the 5442 and 4M-T do that for me. I don't care that the grass is soft/fuzzy as I am not taking pictures for the County Fair.

I want a good freeze frame of an object in motion. I don't care what the static image looks like or what the grass looks like.

Case in point, the min-PTZ.

In my testing, autotracking versus static are two different setups (why in the firmware who knows LOL).

A big complaint about the mini-PTZ was at night without enough light, the image is soft.

I agree with that. So in my dialing in, I went with the extreme and dropped NR down to 10 - as you can expect, the image is a dancing pixel mess. Most would not accept how bad the static image looks.

But once an object gets in view, you watch all the noise disappear and get a clean capture of a person walking.

1777579781699.png

This PTZ took me longer than any other camera to dial in. But it shows to the extreme why not to focus on the static image.

In my instance the PTZ is a compliment to my fixed cameras, so I don't care that the static image was a noisy pixelated mess.
 
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