EOM (End of Marketing and Sales) for 5442-S3 announced
- Thread starter steve1225
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biggen
Known around here
- May 6, 2018
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Chokolinho
Getting comfortable
4MP model comes with a 1/1.8 sensor and includes blue/red warning lights, alarm, IR, and white light. The 8MP version features a larger 1/1.2 sensor but only has white light.
Arjun
IPCT Contributor
Since we got no update, I assume its another fail at this point for Dahua
Chokolinho
Getting comfortable
I still have a little hope for this camera.Since we got no update, I assume its another fail at this point for Dahua
I have a 6mm HDW5459TM-ASE-IL side-by-side with an S3. By "with people" do you mean for detection or identification? I'll answer both. Detection-wise, it's almost as good as the S3. In general, it detects a person a few seconds later than the S3, and very occasionally not at all. If there's a case where both cameras miss detecting a person, I wouldn't be aware of it. Identification-wise, the IL is a bit better with low light images, so there might be fringe cases where the IL could provide an ID and the S3 couldn't. These cameras don't see many people in their FOV, so my comments represent a pretty small data sample.
Chokolinho
Getting comfortable
That sounds good at first glance. I could order a couple of them at $240 each. I want to replace the 54 Pro cameras and am looking for replacements so I can get a good freeze-frame image.
Techie007L
Getting the hang of it
Yes, the IPC-Color4K-T/X cameras are amazing. The only thing that could make them significantly better would be if they could get the WizColor technology from the Color4M-TL added to the Color4K-T/X cameras—this would enable them to see much better at night (brightness and color) and improve their contrast management (daytime high contrast scenes wouldn't be so washed out or dark, and snowy scenes would be white with full contrast instead of a pale gray). For example, with the Color4M-TL, the darkened dock in video #2 would look just like video #1, the trees to the left wouldn't go to black, and the last video would not be so dark (however, due to its resolution being just under half, the image wouldn't be so crisp either).
Depends which 4M camera you're referring to:
- The Color4M-T (now $185) is junk. Fuzzy over-sharpened image with AI artifacts, lacking detail, major contrast issues, color issues. It cannot be overstated how bad this camera is, and the unclear naming scheme is unfortunate. No comparison to the Color-4K series cameras! Only buy it if you need the speaker, red/blue police lights, and the stealth IR ability paired with switching to white when motion is detected—and don't care about actual image quality. In my testing, it was so bad there were times (usually dusk) when I couldn't tell whether I was viewing the main stream or the 720p sub stream!
- The Color4M-TL (now $110) is a great camera—if you don't need IR, it's better than the renowned 5442s IMHO. I would characterize it as the "little brother" to the Color4K-T camera, having just under half the resolution (my testing suggests it's actually a 1440p camera, so you'll want to drop the resolution to 1440p to avoid the gridlike clear/fuzzy artifacts from the image upscaling it does at 1520p—which puts it at 3.7MP to the Color4K's 8.3MP. You'll also want to adjust its image parameters as follows out of the box: Mode=Self-adaptive, Style=Standard, Saturation=55, Gamma=45, Sharpness and 2D NR Level=20, LDC=Off, and reboot to lock in the 2D NR setting for maximum clarity). I would say this camera actually sees better than the Color4K-T at night—for reference, a scene lit by a full moon looks just like broad daylight, only with some motion blur. The Color4K-T can also see in full moonlight, but it doesn't look light broad daylight (the image is dim and pale) and the motion blur is worse.
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Having played with these for a number of years, I have learned that "bright" doesn't equal "quality" image.
We went through this with the 54PRO and the 3 series TIOC PRO (4M-T)
I'd love to see some video with that 4M-TL (Is that the Dahua IL series?) as described by your settings.
We can make many cameras "brighter" but that usually comes with motion blur and less quality image. I can almost guarantee there is no comparison to it and the 4K-T/X
I'd just caution that my report is observational over a few months as opposed to a formal and/or controlled test. So until there are additional reports to confirm or refute my findings, you're taking the risk of being a test pilot, so to speak, and might see different results. If I were using the IL to detect people I'd keep it unless it was a really critical security application where the occasional detection miss was unacceptable. As it is, my main application is to detect animals which it is really poor at, so the S3 is staying. I'm hanging on in the hope of future firmware fixing the animal detection.
Techie007L
Getting the hang of it
Why would you immediately assume this given the facts?
- According to my calculations (using the common sensor diagonals from Edmund Optics and running the figures through the calculator at Astronomy Tools), the IPC-Color4K-T and IPC-Color4M-TL cameras have the same 3µm pixel size. Remember, the 4K-T has a 1/1.2" sensor with a resolution of 3840x2160 (8.294mp), and the 4M-TL has a 1/1.8" sensor with a resolution of 2560x1440 (3.686mp). Both are F1.0 cameras. So with all other things equal, shouldn't you expect an equal ability to gather light? But they're not equal—the 4M-TL camera has WizColor technology which the 4K-T lacks! By comparison, the TIOC Pro (4M-T) camera has a higher resolution (2688x1520, 4.086mp) sensor at the same 1/1.8" size, so of course it will have slightly lower light gathering capability (same for the 5442 and 54PRO series cameras).
- If you look at the Dahua specs for the original IPC-HDW5849H-ASE-LED and IPC-HDW2449T-S-PRO cameras, you'll see that the former is rated down to 0.0005lux, while the latter is rated down to 0.0001lux. Even Dahua believes the cheaper/newer camera has better light gathering ability!
- Several of us have been saying the TIOC Pro (4M-T) camera is bad, and plenty have been saying the 54Pro isn't great either. I have no intention of ever buying a 54PRO based on what I've seen here; but because of the initial rave reviews on this site, I bought a 4M-T (TIOC Pro) camera with high expectations, and seeing the low price on the 4M-TL, threw one in too just to see how bad the budget camera would be. Then I put them up side by side with an existing 5442 camera. I was disappointed to discover that the 4M-T (TIOC Pro) camera was junk that couldn't even keep up with the 5442, and shocked to see the cheap 4M-TL consistently outperforming the 5442. It has now replaced the 5442 as my "go-to" camera—I keep trying to spread the good word, yet y'all remain skeptical! Why do y'all have to automatically assume that the cheaper camera is bad too, without properly testing it?
- The IPC-Color4M-TL camera's image is pretty rough out of the box. You have to adjust the settings (as I've described before) to get a good image. For example, it defaults to the Soft style, which creates saturation issues on that camera (brightly colored objects appear fine, but slightly colored objects turn gray), the default 2D NR setting of 50 blurs out much detail, and LDC significantly hurts the camera's already limited resolution. By comparison, I was unable to find settings on the TIOC Pro (IPC-Color4M-T) camera that would consistently produce a satisfactory image.
I'm not claiming miracles, just pointing out that the IPC-Color4M-TL does better in the dark than the IPC-Color4K-T: Slightly in the depiction of moving objects and moreso in the appearance of the image. Both of them exhibit significant motion blur and noise without adequate light (which full moonlight is not, but it is a consistent reference). The 4K-T generally provides more detail due to having over twice as much resolution, while the 4M-TL generally provides a better equalized image due to the WizColor technology. With the 2D NR setting properly adjusted (low!), both cameras provide decent pixel-level detail. The 4K-T would be a killer camera if they could add the WizColor technology to it. The big assertion I will make is that the IPC-Color4M-TL currently provides the best value proposition (image quality+features÷price) on the market by a significant margin.
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I will take real world examples over calculations and camera specs all day.
Heck we can say the same thing about calculations and specs on one of the Reolinks on an ideal MP/sensor, but real life performance sucks.
The actual sensor and firmware have a big say in performance that is not accurately accounted for in calculations and manufacturers white lie specs.
Let's see examples of your camera comparisons.
Heck we can say the same thing about calculations and specs on one of the Reolinks on an ideal MP/sensor, but real life performance sucks.
The actual sensor and firmware have a big say in performance that is not accurately accounted for in calculations and manufacturers white lie specs.
Let's see examples of your camera comparisons.
Well, I’ve heard good things from 2-3 people about the IL series.
I’ve yet to see a real comparative test video with settings.
Show me.
I’ve been burnt by the 54PRO and TIOC-PRO
I showed clearly that the 5442S3 series beats them both in image quality. And I’ve been down the road about the static images being better. It’s a video camera.
We know that the sensor in the 5442 is different/better than the other two newish models mentioned. Likely a cost and/or availability issue.
The 4KT/X suffer due to no IR ability. But with some ambient light, and/or the onboard LEDs, they capture light better than the 5442. Would be great if they had the same ability as the 54PRO/TIOC PRO to active the LEDs on motion.
Would love for you to be right.
Call me skeptical that the IL series is using the better sensor.
Re”Wizcolor”
What specifically is that? Is there a technical definition somewhere ?
So far my experience with “Wizcolor” is that it brightens the image at the expense of IQ
I’ve yet to see a real comparative test video with settings.
Show me.
I’ve been burnt by the 54PRO and TIOC-PRO
I showed clearly that the 5442S3 series beats them both in image quality. And I’ve been down the road about the static images being better. It’s a video camera.
We know that the sensor in the 5442 is different/better than the other two newish models mentioned. Likely a cost and/or availability issue.
The 4KT/X suffer due to no IR ability. But with some ambient light, and/or the onboard LEDs, they capture light better than the 5442. Would be great if they had the same ability as the 54PRO/TIOC PRO to active the LEDs on motion.
Would love for you to be right.
Call me skeptical that the IL series is using the better sensor.
Re”Wizcolor”
What specifically is that? Is there a technical definition somewhere ?
So far my experience with “Wizcolor” is that it brightens the image at the expense of IQ
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Yes, the 54 or 58 series the best cameras so far. Bad news the Crazy AI make the cameras shortage of chips. I am trying to make the supply stable but chips price have increase too much this year, and have news April they will increase the price again.
But Good news the chips price have some down in the past week because of the war, maybe going stable. or maybe bound back fast again.
Be careful of being confident!
Many times when I'm confident, backed up by a lot of research and number crunching, my wife in a few seconds comes to a different conclusion, and she's right.
WAF -> Wife Acceptance Factor
Often the most important issue to consider in ... just ... about ... anything! ;-)
Often the most important issue to consider in ... just ... about ... anything! ;-)