Dahua WizColor 5x59-PRO and SmartLight 5x59-IL new series

[steve1225]

The concept of these plug

Forget about Aviglion. In addition to being expensive, utterly horrible to deal with.

At one point, a company I own was doing some pretty substantially business. Among other things, we were working on the biggest Mobotix deployment outside of Europe.

Around five years ago, I decided to look into some other brands. I reached out to Aviglion to ask about buying some demo unit. I wasn't looking for a handout. Take my money and send me your best.

They told me that they had too many integrators already, that they were working on getting rid of some that were selling less than 20 cameras per year. They told me that they needed to get rid of one of these guys before I could begin using the product. They then tried to get me to contact one of these tiny integrators to buy the demo unit.

I'm working on a project with 100 locations... And this is your answer? Stick it.

The pricing on a lot of these enterprise-level systems is so outrageous that even enterprise businesses are choosing to go with Dahua and Hik. I had a demo call with Digital Watchdog. My interest ended when I found out that I couldn't swap drives on the $5-10K NVR without voiding the warranty. My enterprise clients wouldn't be having that.

Ubiquti is up and coming. That's who I have my money on (literally, in the stock market). Reasonable prices (e.g. no license fees) and silly easy to use. Yes, the cams themselves are lacking. But the whole ecosystem is just fantastic. They are likely to get there before everyone else.

Finally, I agree with the assertions on this thread that ONVIF is likely to be a dead end with high-end AI features going forward. That said, the UniFi AI ports ($199 hardware dongle) do a really good job of bringing AI features to my Dahuas.

Avigilon is doing CCTV systems for corporations, who need multiple 100+ cameras systems.. And they have good integrated solution for that (especially VMS / software side, camera hardware is mediocre at best). Price is from the hell, but they have many advantages for that big integrations...

They don't want doing smaller system or have anything to do with smaller installers...

ps. How Mobotix is doing? I did 10+ years ago a few installs with Mobotix dual cam domes and Mobotix intercoms - but customers weren't happy (no h264, strange MJPEG, bad mobile apps, no IR support, no NVR). 2 years ago all those systems were replaced by Dahua..

 

[tmxv4128]

What browser are you using? Did you have to install the web plugin?

I'm considering upgrading from the old 2AI

I’m using the Chrome browser on my Macintosh and didn’t install the plugin. Seems to work fine. I upgraded from a 8-channel 2AI to the new 16-channel 2AI. Nice upgrade, and it was an easy migration.

 

[Chokolinho]

I’m using the Chrome browser on my Macintosh and didn’t install the plugin. Seems to work fine. I upgraded from a 8-channel 2AI to the new 16-channel 2AI. Nice upgrade, and it was an easy migration.

Can you watch AI replay normally without the video skipping?

 

[H. Swanson]

I’m using the Chrome browser on my Macintosh and didn’t install the plugin. Seems to work fine. I upgraded from a 8-channel 2AI to the new 16-channel 2AI. Nice upgrade, and it was an easy migration.

Did it ask for the plugin? On the old NVR, you can access the UI just find without the plugin, but certain features don't work such as fast forward on playback, the ability to do playback on more than 4 cams at a time, etc.

 

[Ookie]

Avigilon is doing CCTV systems for corporations, who need multiple 100+ cameras systems.. And they have good integrated solution for that (especially VMS / software side, camera hardware is mediocre at best). Price is from the hell, but they have many advantages for that big integrations...

They don't want doing smaller system or have anything to do with smaller installers...

ps. How Mobotix is doing? I did 10+ years ago a few installs with Mobotix dual cam domes and Mobotix intercoms - but customers weren't happy (no h264, strange MJPEG, bad mobile apps, no IR support, no NVR). 2 years ago all those systems were replaced by Dahua..

Then why did they tell me that they had a bunch of small time integrators as partners that they needed to get rid of before they could bring us on?

We were doing enough business that I met with the Mobotix CEO when he came in from Germany. His request, not mine. Our company is all active/retired law enforcement. Including some pretty high ranking ex-bosses with the juice to get big contracts.

I'm sure how Mobotix is doing.

We got away from it for three reasons:

1. No WDR. No solid plan to implement it three years after $100 cameras had it.
2. Absolutely horrific software. The old CEO decided to design the software for touch screens and then try to adapt that for PCs. Literally the least intuitive piece of software that I ever used. Microsoft tried that with Windows 8. We all know how that worked out.
3. HORRIFIC distributors.

It was the issues with the distributors that led us to get away from it.

For my first demo set, I bought from an outfit in Texas. They ended up running an unauthorized charge for additional cameras on my card that I never ordered. Never used them again.

I ended up going to a distributor in Northern VA. Another shit show. Orders were by phone and they constantly messed them up. But once again, the big thing was billing errors. On multiple occasions, they tried to bill me for things ordered by other companies.

One of my big flags when dealing with any business is employee turnover. Some industries--like hair salons and food service--normally have high turnover. But when I'm buying cameras, and I call and my salesman is "no longer with the company." Then the new guy is gone within four weeks. And the next guy gone within six weeks.... Tells me that the owner is treating his employees like shit.

If a person will screw over someone he sees every single day, you can better believe that they will screw over a customer that they may only deal with a few times.

After getting another five figure bill for items ordered by another customer, I read Mobotix the riot act. Sell to us direct, or we are out. Mobotix finally agreed to sell to us direct. Then they sent pricing and I laughed. I knew from a former employee that the distributors had been getting things at roughly 50% of MSRP. The pricing I got was roughly what we were getting it from the distributor from. They were going to pocket the extra 25%.

Since we were already unhappy with the product, we switched to Dahua and never looked back.

That said, I'm a huge fan of Ubiquti as of late. While the cameras hardware would need to improve to be average, the Protect ecosystem is phenomenal. And it's way easier to improve cameras than it is to design an incredible ecosystem. I was impressed to the point that I took a six figure stock position in UI.

 

[CCTVCam]

there is no such thing as signals sent over POE to the recording equipment

POE is a Power over Ethernet standards.. except some negotiation for power, it simply sends 48V over CAT5 cable Nothing more...

We're kind of splitting hairs with terminology as I'm sure you understood what I meant as per your comments below. There is only 1 cable, poe ethernet cable that carries data and power. To be 100% clear, yes I'm talking about the data standard that sends the data over the ethernet cable not the poe standard. I'm not a PC tech so you'll have to excuse the slightly non technical use of terminology. I'm the turd not the nerd.

Dahua NVRs and IPCs are using many protocols, all over classic TCP/IP (or UDP/IP in case of P2P), which are sent over Ethernet (or WIFI). As each computer and device on internet.

You are probably are talking about Dahua Private Protocol. Protocol name says Private, but Dahua offers SDK with documentation to it after signing NDA. So you can write own apps for it (and I know one written in Poland).

That sounds about right.

No one wants to implement manufacturers private protocols, features or technologies. Too many brands & features.

Obviously if Dahua are making it freely available, that's down to NVR / software manufacturers. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. It will be interesting to see if someone like Ken can get a hold of the DPP and implement it on BI. If that's the case, many of us are good to go. If not, then it raises questions as to why he can't and how freely available it actually is or whether there are catches to using it.

On a wider point, the real answer to the lack of ONIV progress is for the largest manufacturers ie Dahua, Hik etc to agree a common transmission protocol standard of their own. Maybe form a Chinese standards committee. It could be based on Dahua, Hik or some new neutral software standard and implement new transmission features for all member manufacturers. The alternative is to have a fractured market where everyone is tied into their own system. That's never good. Consumers (both business and literal consumers) want products that implement easily and smoothly. They don't want to find themselves tied into systems that restrict their choice. eg what if Hik comes out with a camera that blows Dahua out of the water (or vice versa)? The choice for both consumer and business with a closed eco system is scrap your entire system and switch allegiance to the other brand at huge cost, or miss out on the latest tech. A universal eco system means you just buy the other brand and plug in. Faced with changing an entire eco system at huge expense simply to purchase the latest cameras, change isn't going to happen for many consumers / businesses as the cost outweighs the benefits and that's where the manufacturers will lose out on sales as customers will sit on existing systems rather than upgrade when they might have otherwise done so due to the cost / benefit analysis. Obviously no-one can force the large China manufacturers to form their own common standard. But if they really want to take a global business view in a world where there's hostility to their products, in my opinion, they need to adopt a common standard to make adoption and use as easy as possible if they want to push sales in their direction. It becomes a far easier choice for business if the West's brands are fragmented, yet China's brands all use the same communication eco system making switching between camera brands and / or mixing and matching brands easy.

 

[CCTVCam]

That said, I'm a huge fan of Ubiquti as of late. While the cameras hardware would need to improve to be average, the Protect ecosystem is phenomenal. And it's way easier to improve cameras than it is to design an incredible ecosystem. I was impressed to the point that I took a six figure stock position in UI.

Aren't they one of the manufacturers moving away from a locked in eco system?