Blue Iris in a VM.
- Thread starter EagleEye7
- Start date
For most cases it is a good practice to do so, but not perfect. I backup my BI in this way.
For systems running databases or other data with risk for inconsistency the safe way is to shutdown the system first. The alternative is a so called application aware backup where the backup software uses a client on the system that communicates with the application software to enter a safe state for the time the backup is taken.
I'm another BI in Proxmox user and I have CCTV storage disks passed through. I use CPAI in a Docker with GPU passthrough for better isolation which works really well as I have another GPU equipped PVE host so can easily switch BI between them.
As I pass through the main video disks I cannot use snapshots, but I still backup six times a day and with VirtIO drivers installed in the BI VM and COM permission adjusted to ensure VSS works then the backups are as good as you would get with say Macrium Reflect, and the host isn't stopped. VSS based backups are as good as it gets for a running Windows VM but as many apps don't provide their own VSS writers there is always the chance for some inconsistency (VSS calls registered writers to write out key data to disk and pause while a disk shadow is created, after that disk operations are resumed without impacting that shadow copy)
Sometimes when taking an extra backup before major changes I will do a 'stopped' backup and that only stops the VM for a few seconds and restarts while backing up using a frozen and fully consistent image of the VM's boot and non video file disks.
I backup to a Proxmox backup server VM on another PVE host so although backups are technically full, the de-duplication means the data stored is only unique blocks so space efficient like incrementals (both my PBS VMs show over 30 for de-duplication factor across all my VMs). You can backup locally in PVE but this can eat up a lot of disk space depending on your systems and VMs.
Restores are quick so although snapshots are nice for trying various changes its not an issue to rely on backups instead. As only the main video file disks are passed through consistency isn't a big issue and a database rebuild can always be run. I used passthrough disks as I don't backup the main CCTV files given I'm using 24TB of storage and these drives are on removable caddies so if the host fails I can unplug them and move them to another host (and restore the latest BI VM backup) or access them directly.
As I pass through the main video disks I cannot use snapshots, but I still backup six times a day and with VirtIO drivers installed in the BI VM and COM permission adjusted to ensure VSS works then the backups are as good as you would get with say Macrium Reflect, and the host isn't stopped. VSS based backups are as good as it gets for a running Windows VM but as many apps don't provide their own VSS writers there is always the chance for some inconsistency (VSS calls registered writers to write out key data to disk and pause while a disk shadow is created, after that disk operations are resumed without impacting that shadow copy)
Sometimes when taking an extra backup before major changes I will do a 'stopped' backup and that only stops the VM for a few seconds and restarts while backing up using a frozen and fully consistent image of the VM's boot and non video file disks.
I backup to a Proxmox backup server VM on another PVE host so although backups are technically full, the de-duplication means the data stored is only unique blocks so space efficient like incrementals (both my PBS VMs show over 30 for de-duplication factor across all my VMs). You can backup locally in PVE but this can eat up a lot of disk space depending on your systems and VMs.
Restores are quick so although snapshots are nice for trying various changes its not an issue to rely on backups instead. As only the main video file disks are passed through consistency isn't a big issue and a database rebuild can always be run. I used passthrough disks as I don't backup the main CCTV files given I'm using 24TB of storage and these drives are on removable caddies so if the host fails I can unplug them and move them to another host (and restore the latest BI VM backup) or access them directly.
Eagleeye7 - just keep in mind that moving to a Proxmox solution is going to completely change how you "compute" You are opening pandora's box and you are going to feel the sudden urge to install all kinds of VMs and containers for software you never would have considered running before. 
Just ask how I know! 
Seriously, I wouldn't get rid of your old machine just yet. I suspect you are going to end up wanting to pack that thing full of RAM and a different CPU with a lot more cores available to support the "growth" of your server. You obviously don't need to change it just to run BI, but when you discover all the other possibilities, suddenly you are going to be wanting to install a lot of things..... The good news is that that generation Xeon chips are dirt cheap and it might cost $25 to upgrade your CPU. (RAM is a different story right now with the AI demand causing memory prices to skyrocket).
Just ask how I know! Seriously, I wouldn't get rid of your old machine just yet. I suspect you are going to end up wanting to pack that thing full of RAM and a different CPU with a lot more cores available to support the "growth" of your server. You obviously don't need to change it just to run BI, but when you discover all the other possibilities, suddenly you are going to be wanting to install a lot of things..... The good news is that that generation Xeon chips are dirt cheap and it might cost $25 to upgrade your CPU. (RAM is a different story right now with the AI demand causing memory prices to skyrocket).
They are in removable internal SATA caddies (Icy Dock) on a case that has 5.25" bays at the front. I have three caddies each for a 3.5" drive, and one that has 4 slots for 2.5" SSDs. I have the same on both of my cost PVE hosts so three key VMs, CCTV, file server and PBS, both of which use passthrough can be moved (easily with Proxmox DataCenter Manager) or restored from backup on the other PVE host by just moving the physical drives.
I didn't like the downsides of going with a Proxmox cluster using another device as quorum, so this arrangement gives me a decent recovery plan without too much cost and direct access to key storage devices if ever needed.
Last edited:
biggen
Known around here
- May 6, 2018
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I do the same as you. I try to find cases that have multiple external 5.25 bays (which is harder and harder to find) and then I buy the Star Tech or Icy Dock caddies so I have easy external access to the drives without having to dig inside the case. They aren't hot swappable like true SAS drives but that is fine. It's more for convenience.
Interesting.
In this case I will start off with the internal drive slots - there is 4 of them, although I suspect I can fit a 2.5" SSD and a 3.5" HDD in one slot - the smaller SSD mounts in an 'extra' bit at the top. So that effectively gives 6 disks, considering I have 2 SSD's for OS at the moment.
The side of the case comes off very easily (it's on a latch), so physical access to disks is easy.
In this case I will start off with the internal drive slots - there is 4 of them, although I suspect I can fit a 2.5" SSD and a 3.5" HDD in one slot - the smaller SSD mounts in an 'extra' bit at the top. So that effectively gives 6 disks, considering I have 2 SSD's for OS at the moment.
The side of the case comes off very easily (it's on a latch), so physical access to disks is easy.
I'm certainly not. I do like the massive physical space in the case, for things like disks and PCIe cards. I currently have 64GB of RAM spread across 8 slots. I don't know what the maximum the system supports is. 64GB is plenty for right now.
iwanttosee
Getting comfortable
OK. So there are no issues backing up the OS disk for the running VM?
Any comments on this?
For my Linux VM, no problem backing up the entire VM while the OS is running.
For my Windows BI VM, I have to shut down the VM before backing up, usually takes 15 minutes to back up 60GB of VM or so.
Anyone used SAS controllers for drives?
I have access to some enterprise drives, but discovered that they are SAS not SATA. I don't think my server supports SAS as it is.
I did notice there are quite a few PCIe SAS controllers going used: Sas Card for sale | eBay
I have access to some enterprise drives, but discovered that they are SAS not SATA. I don't think my server supports SAS as it is.
I did notice there are quite a few PCIe SAS controllers going used: Sas Card for sale | eBay
As an eBay Associate IPCamTalk earns from qualifying purchases.
Both my servers use SAS3008 HBAs that I flashed to IT mode and also to fix a SATA only bug as most of my drives are now SATA although I did start with some older SAS drives.
I had a cheap e-bay card initially but currently using new 10Gtek as they're pretty cheap and I needed to hook all 8 drives up so didn't want to risk odd issues/really old cards.
I use a SAS3008 HBS controller in combination with SAS HDD as well in my server. But this I do not use for BI. It is used as passthrough device in my TrueNAS server that is running virtualized.
For BI a lot of people here recommend HDD that are optimized for continuously recording: Western Digital Purple (Pro) or Segate Skyhawk.
I use a WD Purple Pro.
Sounds like people get on OK with SAS3008 based cards then.
I will have a look for a SAS3008 card.
Quite. I do have one SATA WD Purple drive which I will use, but I also have access to a bunch of enterprise SAS drives - whilst they may not (I haven't checked) be rated for continuous writes, they are enterprise grade pieces of hardware with no or low hours, so the worst that can happen is one fails at some point and I lose some BI recordings - chances of that being an issue are quite low.
I will have a look for a SAS3008 card.
Anyone familiar with the difference between SAS3008 and SAS2308 based equipment? Is it just that the 2308 is slower? It seems more readily available.
Depends on what you want to use it for. I think a lot of SAS controller cards are in "RAID" mode by default, meaning they want to be a hardware RAID controller. If you want to use a software RAID or something like the ZFS filesystem, then you need to flash "IT mode" firmware onto the card unless it came with that already.
You cannot do anything wrong as long you keep your video recording separated for other data storage.
If you have a cheep option, go for it.
Yes, I noticed that. The one I have ordered does not state either way - we shall see...
Exactly. I will be using BI exclusive disks.