Isolate NVRs behind a second router?

And I could build my own car but I'm lazy and prefer someone more knowledgeable to do it for me
I also happen to be familiar with its ease of use for non-technical types.
Yes, of course, you can buy a ready-made unit like that - and if you’ve found the Firewalla solution to be fairly easy to set up and manage, all the better. But there are plenty of such solutions on the market, varying in how easy they are to configure and administer. Some users might prefer OPNsense, OpenWrt, or IPFire, for instance. Personally, I find IPFire easier to manage than OPNsense, for example. But those are just individual preferences.

Theoretically, you could also install Firewalla on your own suitable hardware; after all, Firewalla is open source. :)

I just wanted to prevent @JPmedia from spending money unnecessarily, only to potentially realize later that it doesn't actually help with his NVR issue. After all, simply placing an NVR behind an extra router and/or into a VLAN - without first considering the implications for access from various clients - isn't the right approach. That is precisely why I suggested that @JPmedia should familiarize himself with the subject matter a bit more first.

Edit @JPmedia
Is this about your (or a) Dahua NVR - the one you mentioned in other posts? If so:
1. I find it hard to imagine there would be an admin user that you cannot delete.
2. Depending on the firmware version, a Dahua NVR already has certain basic, built-in firewall functions. For example, you can restrict access to specific IP addresses within the LAN.

Dahua_NVR_Basic_Firewall.jpg

Furthermore, unless you have set up a port forwarding rule for the NVR in your router, or enabled UPnP for it, or are using P2P or some other method for remote access, no one can access the NVR from the internet anyway. Access attempts from the WAN (internet) to your LAN are typically blocked by default, unless you have manually lifted or relaxed that restriction. Consequently, WAN access to the NVR wouldn't be possible - unless the NVR itself initiated an outbound connection to the internet that could then be exploited by someone else.
 
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Yes, of course, you can buy a ready-made unit like that - and if you’ve found the Firewalla solution to be fairly easy to set up and manage, all the better. But there are plenty of such solutions on the market, varying in how easy they are to configure and administer. Some users might prefer OPNsense, OpenWrt, or IPFire, for instance. Personally, I find IPFire easier to manage than OPNsense, for example. But those are just individual preferences.

Theoretically, you could also install Firewalla on your own suitable hardware; after all, Firewalla is open source. :)

I just wanted to prevent @JPmedia from spending money unnecessarily, only to potentially realize later that it doesn't actually help with his NVR issue. After all, simply placing an NVR behind an extra router and/or into a VLAN - without first considering the implications for access from various clients - isn't the right approach. That is precisely why I suggested that @JPmedia should familiarize himself with the subject matter a bit more first.

Edit @JPmedia
Is this about your (or a) Dahua NVR - the one you mentioned in other posts? If so:
1. I find it hard to imagine there would be an admin user that you cannot delete.
2. Depending on the firmware version, a Dahua NVR already has certain basic, built-in firewall functions. For example, you can restrict access to specific IP addresses within the LAN.

View attachment 250265

are using P2Pme other method for remote access.
Current old NVR is using P2P originally set up on initial installation for notifications and remote access. As far as I know, that's the only way to access it remotely. And yes, there are logs which show weird behavior and another user initiating said behavior and then sometimes I check the logs and there are none present, even though there should be from motion detection and other operations.

I don't suppose resetting the NVR might remove the account activity and odd behavior?
 
Yes, of course, you can buy a ready-made unit like that - and if you’ve found the Firewalla solution to be fairly easy to set up and manage, all the better. But there are plenty of such solutions on the market, varying in how easy they are to configure and administer. Some users might prefer OPNsense, OpenWrt, or IPFire, for instance. Personally, I find IPFire easier to manage than OPNsense, for example. But those are just individual preferences.

Theoretically, you could also install Firewalla on your own suitable hardware; after all, Firewalla is open source. :)

I just wanted to prevent @JPmedia from spending money unnecessarily, only to potentially realize later that it doesn't actually help with his NVR issue. After all, simply placing an NVR behind an extra router and/or into a VLAN - without first considering the implications for access from various clients - isn't the right approach. That is precisely why I suggested that @JPmedia should familiarize himself with the subject matter a bit more first.

Edit @JPmedia
Is this about your (or a) Dahua NVR - the one you mentioned in other posts? If so:
1. I find it hard to imagine there would be an admin user that you cannot delete.
2. Depending on the firmware version, a Dahua NVR already has certain basic, built-in firewall functions. For example, you can restrict access to specific IP addresses within the LAN.
As I mentioned, my knowledge on the subject of VLANs, VPNs, Firewalls and network security is non-existent.

Besides the usual P2P connection, how else does one get notifications and access the NVR for viewing remotely? How does anyone else do it with a Dahua NVR?
 
Remote access typically via

  • P2P if NVR FW and SmartPSS/Lite is updated newer than Aug 2024 when the P2P problem existed
  • Via VPN

Both can, depending on settings, work with DMSS for notifications

I use both
 
As I mentioned, my knowledge on the subject of VLANs, VPNs, Firewalls and network security is non-existent.
That’s not a problem, of course, but that is precisely why you should do a bit of research on the subject first, instead of just buying something.

Yes, the P2P connection via DMSS is indeed the standard method for this. Alternatively, there is the option of using a VPN connection.

Regarding P2P, there was a rather serious security vulnerability with Dahua in 2024, which was subsequently patched via a firmware update. If your Dahua NVR is still running firmware from before 2024, it is quite possible that your device is affected by this vulnerability. You would need to look into this matter yourself, though; I am not sure if you have ever posted or asked about this here before - I haven't gone through all 1,500 or so of your previous posts. :)

And yes, there are logs which show weird behavior and another user initiating said behavior and then sometimes I check the logs and there are none present, even though there should be from motion detection and other operations.
What exactly do these logs showing "strange behavior" and a different user look like? The log should allow you to clearly identify when a user logged into the NVR - specifically, whether it was a user from the admin group and which IP address they used to log in.

NVR_Log.png

However, motion detection log entries are found in the alarm log

NVR_Alarm_Log.png

rather than the system log, and the two logs are not really related to each other.

What I also don't understand is you mentioning certain user accounts on the NVR that are supposedly "hidden" and/or cannot be deleted. I don't believe any "malicious hacker" went to the trouble of rewriting your NVR's firmware to effectively completely bypass the account and user management systems.

NVR_Konto.png

Yes, I can certainly understand why you’re worried if strange things are happening with your NVR that you can’t explain; I’d feel the same way. However, I’m not sure if anything odd is actually going on with your NVR or perhaps within your network - it’s just hard to judge that sort of thing remotely.
I don't suppose resetting the NVR might remove the account activity and odd behavior?
If really strange things are going on with your NVR, I would have tried that out a long time ago if I were you - even if it means having to set everything up again from scratch afterwards.

Edit: OK, regarding P2P and 2024 and VPN @bigredfish beat me to the post by a few seconds. :lol:

P.S. I’m heading offline for the day now, too, because here in Germany it’s time for dinner and the end of the workday. :)
 
That’s not a problem, of course, but that is precisely why you should do a bit of research on the subject first, instead of just buying something.

Yes, the P2P connection via DMSS is indeed the standard method for this. Alternatively, there is the option of using a VPN connection.

Regarding P2P, there was a rather serious security vulnerability with Dahua in 2024, which was subsequently patched via a firmware update. If your Dahua NVR is still running firmware from before 2024, it is quite possible that your device is affected by this vulnerability. You would need to look into this matter yourself, though; I am not sure if you have ever posted or asked about this here before - I haven't gone through all 1,500 or so of your previous posts. :)


What exactly do these logs showing "strange behavior" and a different user look like? The log should allow you to clearly identify when a user logged into the NVR - specifically, whether it was a user from the admin group and which IP address they used to log in.

View attachment 250268

However, motion detection log entries are found in the alarm log

View attachment 250269

rather than the system log, and the two logs are not really related to each other.

What I also don't understand is you mentioning certain user accounts on the NVR that are supposedly "hidden" and/or cannot be deleted. I don't believe any "malicious hacker" went to the trouble of rewriting your NVR's firmware to effectively completely bypass the account and user management systems.

View attachment 250270

Yes, I can certainly understand why you’re worried if strange things are happening with your NVR that you can’t explain; I’d feel the same way. However, I’m not sure if anything odd is actually going on with your NVR or perhaps within your network - it’s just hard to judge that sort of thing remotely.

If really strange things are going on with your NVR, I would have tried that out a long time ago if I were you - even if it means having to set everything up again from scratch afterwards.

Edit: OK, regarding P2P and 2024 and VPN @bigredfish beat me to the post by a few seconds. :lol:

P.S. I’m heading offline for the day now, too, because here in Germany it’s time for dinner and the end of the workday. :)



FYI- We've actually been over some of this before

 
FYI- We've actually been over some of this before

Yes we have, and I've changed passwords on the NVR, laptop and cameras and the issue still persists. I had to take the Southside camera down to reset it physically with the reset button because I could not access it through the web page. It kept saying incorrect password.

I reset it, reinstalled it and later that evening, the camera showed signs of tampering again. Someone or something set the exposure so you could only see the lights dimly. No amount of setting changes would make the image brighter.

I'm frustrated at this point. It shouldn't be this difficult to have a functional camera system
 
Two routers are not sufficient, the NVR/camera may be able to get out to the internet ( happened to me before using vlans).

My setup:
1 router with 2 vlans.
1 vlan for NVR
1 vlan for other devices
The NVR vlan doesn't have internet access.
I have one device that is on both vlans, a Raspberry pi, that I trust, it's also the VPN server.
So if I'm out of home I can connect to the RPI and then reach the NVR.
 
Certainly the most recent P2P is safer than the older version.

But anything connected to the internet can be hacked.

And a company the size of Dahua is a target rich environment for hackers.

Hunt.io is a commercial threat hunting and threat intelligence platform trying to find these exploits and help get them closed before the bad guys find them.

One such investigation compromised more than 14,530 Dahua devices between June 17 and July 22, 2026, using credential attacks, two authentication-bypass flaws, and a peer-to-peer (P2P) relay technique.

Instead of trying to crack your password, one such hack involves using automated attacker scripts that send a corrupted data packet directly to the NVR using its serial number identity. This packet fools the NVR's internal login screen into thinking the user is already logged in as a local administrative account.

And none of these backdoor entries will show up in an NVR log.

It is one of the main reasons why we say do not expose these devices to the internet. But if you do, make sure the firmware is current (and then deal with whatever issues come out of that like a PTZ losing auto tracking capability).


But back to your main concern, if one wants to view cameras remotely and get notifications, they have a few options - port forward, P2P, or hosting a VPN like OpenVPN or using something like Tailscale or Wireguard.

But as I said, any system on the internet can be hacked.

Hackers don't care about your camera feed. Hackers use a vulnerable device (NVR or camera or any other IoT) that has ZERO protection on it to get into your LAN and either scrape it for bank info or use your ISP as a bot for DDoS attacks. Your antivirus software and router firewall do not block this crap because you gave an open door directly to your system to bypass these measures.

That is why many of us don't have the Alexa, don't connect smart TVs to our internet, etc.

But many that do have those types of things VLAN them off so they cannot talk to other stuff on the LAN. Doesn't prevent a bot from taking over that specific device to DDoS, but at least it prevents them from scraping your data.

The only way to completely prevent it is to not allow the device to connect to anything and truly be a CCTV system.

But that is unrealistic to most.

Most here will agree that port forwarding directly to your NVR is the least safe. Although the great internet has many articles that state it is OK lol.

Then there is a debate as to if P2P or OpenVPN or something like ZeroTier, Wireguard or TailScale is the next safer option.

Arguments are made both ways.

P2P you are relying on the NVR manufacturer's servers to not be hacked. You have zero control over those. Dahua has recently been shutting down the older P2P servers that were more easily hacked. Many here have confidence in the newest line of P2P security features.

Same with ZeroTier and the like. You are relying on someone else's servers to make that connection. Anytime you are relying on someone else, it can be hacked.

OpenVPN is hosted locally, either native to the router or installed on a computer.

In theory you have the most control over this since it is all in your house.

But it relies on opensource coding that can be hacked as well.

You are relying on your computer and router to be up to date and not allow bad actors in. But that is the same regardless of the solution you are using. At least the computer gets more frequent security updates than an NVR. But Windows is the most common OS that more actors are trying to exploit it than say an NVR.

So you take extra steps like the firewall device @bigredfish has that allows you to monitor everything.

Many of us with BI use Pushover to send notifications that go out to the Pushover email or API servers - in this event all they have access to is your images and not your entire system. You can also do that with an NVR with the Pushover email option.

Take steps to further minimize access to stuff.

Regardless of which platform you use to access your stuff remotely, have it be isolated from the rest of the system so that the entire system isn't compromised.

Set up procedures that lets you know whenever something connects or logs in to your device. Doesn't necessarily prevent the backdoor exploit, but take any steps possible to eliminate those risks.

Or just say F it and use port forward blindly like most of society. At the end of the day, most don't get hacked. It just sucks if you are one of them that do.
 
FYI- We've actually been over some of this before
Okay, I hadn't realized that @JPmedia has been struggling with various issues regarding his cameras and NVR for months now. Naturally, I don't read every single post here; I just glance at the ones that might be of interest to me. :)

The linked thread also contains posts from @JPmedia that make things even more "confusing," and I admit that I'm starting to lose track of the situation myself.

That means I won't be posting anything further on this matter. For one thing, the NVR appears to be running old firmware; for another, I can no longer keep track of what has already been tried - where, how, or when. Ultimately, what’s needed is a systematic, organized troubleshooting process, and that only works if the person doing it is knowledgeable about the subject and - ideally - physically on-site. Right now, it’s more like "stumbling around in the dark," and random ideas - like cascading routers or firewall tweaks - won't solve whatever fundamental problem might actually exist.

@JPmedia: Yes, I understand that this problem is frustrating and that you naturally want to resolve it, but unfortunately, I can't offer any further help. In any case, I hope you manage to get the issues sorted out.
 
FWIW, comparable in price of the firewall purple... Netgate's 1100 pfSense+ Security Gateway is a great solution as well.
 
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Okay, I hadn't realized that @JPmedia has been struggling with various issues regarding his cameras and NVR for months now. Naturally, I don't read every single post here; I just glance at the ones that might be of interest to me. :)

The linked thread also contains posts from @JPmedia that make things even more "confusing," and I admit that I'm starting to lose track of the situation myself.

That means I won't be posting anything further on this matter. For one thing, the NVR appears to be running old firmware; for another, I can no longer keep track of what has already been tried - where, how, or when. Ultimately, what’s needed is a systematic, organized troubleshooting process, and that only works if the person doing it is knowledgeable about the subject and - ideally - physically on-site. Right now, it’s more like "stumbling around in the dark," and random ideas - like cascading routers or firewall tweaks - won't solve whatever fundamental problem might actually exist.

@JPmedia: Yes, I understand that this problem is frustrating and that you naturally want to resolve it, but unfortunately, I can't offer any further help. In any case, I hope you manage to get the issues sorted out.
I get it, it's a bit confusing and I can be "all over the place" with ideas, that's me.

To start fresh and forget the old NVR, I want to migrate to my 2 Dahua NVR5216-16P-4KSE2 nvrs. Both have been updated to the newest firmware (4.something). Would it be wise to reset all cameras before moving them over to the Dahua NVRs? If so, I'm hoping I don't have to physically reset them at the camera as that could be a real pain. Hopefully I can reset them through the camera web GUI.
 
Given all your issues, I would factory reset everything and then not connect it to the internet for several days/week and see if the problem persists.
 
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Certainly the most recent P2P is safer than the older version.

But anything connected to the internet can be hacked.

And a company the size of Dahua is a target rich environment for hackers.

Hunt.io is a commercial threat hunting and threat intelligence platform trying to find these exploits and help get them closed before the bad guys find them.

One such investigation compromised more than 14,530 Dahua devices between June 17 and July 22, 2026, using credential attacks, two authentication-bypass flaws, and a peer-to-peer (P2P) relay technique.

Instead of trying to crack your password, one such hack involves using automated attacker scripts that send a corrupted data packet directly to the NVR using its serial number identity. This packet fools the NVR's internal login screen into thinking the user is already logged in as a local administrative account.

And none of these backdoor entries will show up in an NVR log.

It is one of the main reasons why we say do not expose these devices to the internet. But if you do, make sure the firmware is current (and then deal with whatever issues come out of that like a PTZ losing auto tracking capability).


But back to your main concern, if one wants to view cameras remotely and get notifications, they have a few options - port forward, P2P, or hosting a VPN like OpenVPN or using something like Tailscale or Wireguard.

But as I said, any system on the internet can be hacked.

Hackers don't care about your camera feed. Hackers use a vulnerable device (NVR or camera or any other IoT) that has ZERO protection on it to get into your LAN and either scrape it for bank info or use your ISP as a bot for DDoS attacks. Your antivirus software and router firewall do not block this crap because you gave an open door directly to your system to bypass these measures.

That is why many of us don't have the Alexa, don't connect smart TVs to our internet, etc.

But many that do have those types of things VLAN them off so they cannot talk to other stuff on the LAN. Doesn't prevent a bot from taking over that specific device to DDoS, but at least it prevents them from scraping your data.

The only way to completely prevent it is to not allow the device to connect to anything and truly be a CCTV system.

But that is unrealistic to most.

Most here will agree that port forwarding directly to your NVR is the least safe. Although the great internet has many articles that state it is OK lol.

Then there is a debate as to if P2P or OpenVPN or something like ZeroTier, Wireguard or TailScale is the next safer option.

Arguments are made both ways.

P2P you are relying on the NVR manufacturer's servers to not be hacked. You have zero control over those. Dahua has recently been shutting down the older P2P servers that were more easily hacked. Many here have confidence in the newest line of P2P security features.

Same with ZeroTier and the like. You are relying on someone else's servers to make that connection. Anytime you are relying on someone else, it can be hacked.

OpenVPN is hosted locally, either native to the router or installed on a computer.

In theory you have the most control over this since it is all in your house.

But it relies on opensource coding that can be hacked as well.

You are relying on your computer and router to be up to date and not allow bad actors in. But that is the same regardless of the solution you are using. At least the computer gets more frequent security updates than an NVR. But Windows is the most common OS that more actors are trying to exploit it than say an NVR.

So you take extra steps like the firewall device @bigredfish has that allows you to monitor everything.

Many of us with BI use Pushover to send notifications that go out to the Pushover email or API servers - in this event all they have access to is your images and not your entire system. You can also do that with an NVR with the Pushover email option.

Take steps to further minimize access to stuff.

Regardless of which platform you use to access your stuff remotely, have it be isolated from the rest of the system so that the entire system isn't compromised.

Set up procedures that lets you know whenever something connects or logs in to your device. Doesn't necessarily prevent the backdoor exploit, but take any steps possible to eliminate those risks.

Or just say F it and use port forward blindly like most of society. At the end of the day, most don't get hacked. It just sucks if you are one of them that do.
A LOT to digest. How do most users here use and setup an NVR? Obviously, anything connected to the internet can be compromised if the person is motivated enough or sees value.

I don't expect to have an enterprise network system with top security since it's not feasible. I'm just trying to keep as many bad characters as possible out of my network and away from my camera system.
 
Given all your issues, I would factory reset everything and then not connect it to the internet for several days/week and see if the problem persists.
The current NVR cannot be updated, so it definitely needs to go. The 2 Dahua NVRs (NVR5216) have been updated to the latest firmware. I also have a brand-new EmpireTech NV41AI-8P-4KH
 
If all of your cameras are using the same password, set that same password as your admin account on the new NVR.
Reboot - login to verify new admin password works

Then after logging into it to verify the new password (same as your cameras) works, simply plug the cameras into the NVR*
Reboot NVR
*Do one at a time, dont fuck with any other buttons, wait, smoke a cigarette or go to lunch, when you come back and login or refresh they will all be connected

With the pass on the cameras and a PoE NVR the same, PoE ports work like magic and make the connection.
 
After that, setup P2P* on the NVR ONLY. Make sure its disabled on the cameras
You can then add the NVR to DMSS via P2P

*Make sure the date of the firmware on the NVR is later than Aug 2024
 
I'm just trying to keep as many bad characters as possible out of my network and away from my camera system.
Simply follow the points already mentioned here. Namely:
1. First and foremost: Do not set up or use any port opening or port forwarding rules on your router. Do not enable UPnP either.
2. Ensure the cameras and NVR are running a firmware version released no earlier than late 2024. The newer and more up-to-date the firmware version, the better.
3. Avoid using cloud services whenever possible, and consequently, do not use features like P2P.
4. Make use of the NVR's firewall functions, even if they are somewhat basic.
5. Do not configure, enable, or disable any settings on the NVRs or cameras without fully understanding what you are doing and where.
6. Yes, reset the cameras as well.
7. To be safe - and given the previous issues - keep a regular eye on the logs for the NVRs, cameras, and router over the coming period to see if anything "unusual" appears. If something does come up, you can post the details here.

One final note: Unless there happens to be an unpatched security vulnerability in the NVRs or cameras, these steps ensure that no one from the outside can cause trouble on your system. If it happens again anyway, then unfortunately you have done something wrong (again) and/or there is a completely different, fundamental issue with your network.

Edit: I was too slow typing again, :lol: and @bigredfish has already mentioned a few points as well.

Edit 2: I had forgotten one more point, so:
8. Naturally, also make sure that the latest updates are installed on the LAN clients and the router. After all, security vulnerabilities there can serve as potential "entry points" into your LAN.
 
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Nothing wrong with current implementation (post Aug 2024) of Dahua P2P anymore than there is Tailscale, ZeroTier or any other P2P app

Everything can be compromised.

If you want to be 100% safe, disconnect from the Internet

I use both P2P and WireGuard VPN becasue its built into my firewall appliance and easy and much faster than OpenVPN

We're not securing a bank.