Thieves park directly across from driveway

[redpoint5]

My Dahua5442T-ZE zoomed most of the way in captured this last month.

Edited video

Kids parked and sat for 10 minutes, then went through unlocked cars in the neighborhood for the next 30 minutes. Took a 6-pack of Coke and multitool from my cop neighbor (his personal mission is to find these kids now), and sunglasses from another neighbor. Vehicle would be easy to identify if we ever see it again, but I wish I had the ability to capture license plates.

Recommendations for improving video quality appreciated (I recently set zoom to max). Recommendations for a camera/focal length that could capture plates from ~50ft appreciated too.

I considered IR, but I don't like the visible glow that would inform thieves about the cameras, as I want to catch them, not deter. Curious if lower wavelength (completely invisible) IR could provide useful illumination?

 

[wittaj]

I answered in your other post, so here goes in this thread as it makes more sense here:

The go to would be the 5241-Z12E. Andy has one on his refurb list as well!

Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my Z12E that is on the 2nd story soffit, My angle is about 40 degrees vertical, 50 degrees horizontal. Camera is 35 feet above street at this location. At night we have to run fast shutters to capture the plates (1/2,000) so the image is black except for the plate and head/tail lights.

If the distance were truly 50 feet, then you could go with the 5442-Z4E, but it only has half the zoom of the Z12E. They are the same price so go for more zoom.

Most people underestimate distance, so 50 feet turns out to be 80 feet and then the Z4E won't work.

 

[wittaj]

You will find most thieves are oblivious to the cameras. If they are on the lookout for them, then they see them and move on to someone else. If you have some lights on your house, then they won't even see the red glow. I know where mine are and I don't see them due to the houselights.

These cameras do not see the 940nm non-visible IR - well they do but the effective distance is cut back tremendously. You would be well over $1,000 just for a 940nm IR illuminator to get that distance. Maybe even more.

They are as much a deterrent as they are to capture footage later.

Your image above suffers from the biggest mistake people make - trying to do too much with one camera.

The distance of that car to IDENTIFY people is too far away for that camera. I would go no more than 30 feet to IDENTIFY with the ZE. You need more optical zoom.

Sadly, all that video can really tell the police is what time something happened. They MIGHT be able to ID the vehicle, but without another camera to get the color and any distinguishing marks, not likely. That vehicle could be any color.

If you want to get IDENTIFY at that distance across the street, then you need a camera with the OPTICAL zoom to cover that distance. Effective digital zoom, especially at night, only works on TV and in the movies.

 

[mat200]

My Dahua5442T-ZE zoomed most of the way in captured this last month.

Edited video

Kids parked and sat for 10 minutes, then went through unlocked cars in the neighborhood for the next 30 minutes. Took a 6-pack of Coke and multitool from my cop neighbor (his personal mission is to find these kids now), and sunglasses from another neighbor. Vehicle would be easy to identify if we ever see it again, but I wish I had the ability to capture license plates.

Recommendations for improving video quality appreciated (I recently set zoom to max). Recommendations for a camera/focal length that could capture plates from ~50ft appreciated too.

I considered IR, but I don't like the visible glow that would inform thieves about the cameras, as I want to catch them, not deter. Curious if lower wavelength (completely invisible) IR could provide useful illumination?

View attachment 122339

View attachment 122340


View attachment 122338

Nice IR capture ..

I'd add a camera you can run in color mode also, to give you color data - along with the license plate camera(s)

See @EMPIRETECANDY he's got some really nice deals on refurbished units right now.

 

[wittaj]

The importance of a color camera.

When we had a door checker come through here, my neighbor with his Lorex cams set on default captured this:



You cannot tell much from that.

Most would say he was wearing khakis or maybe light blue jeans and a jacket with light sleeves and light block across the chest.

Based on this video, that would be the general clothing description the police would be looking for.

Here is what my camera in color captured:



Based on the description from the B/W, they probably would have let this person go as the pants are black and the top is all black too. It must have some black material on it that made it really reflective with IR.

Most would not say this is the same person.


The same could be said about the vehicle in your picture - it could be any color.

 

[bradner]

The importance of a color camera.

Based on the description from the B/W, they probably would have let this person go as the pants are black and the top is all black too. It must have some black material on it that made it really reflective with IR.

Most would not say this is the same person.

The same could be said about the vehicle in your picture - it could be any color.

I run no B&W cameras anymore other than my PTZ's which I'm waiting for @EMPIRETECANDY to start selling some better bigger sensor ones so I can upgrade them to full-time color. I'm lucky I was able to add more lighting to my camera coverage areas. Andy I tagged you so you know you have buyers waiting for the 2022/23 PTZ's LOL.

 

[wittaj]

^+1!!!!

I am the same way. I have bounced back and forth between color or B/W over the years and at the end of the day, for the distances to IDENTIFY that I have for each camera, I have enough light for color.

A fixed lens 3.6mm will never IDENTIFY at night 55 feet out whether you have color or B/W with a ton of IR, so I run color to get a clean IDENTIFY in the sweet spot of the 3.6mm and then color for anything further out.

 

[redpoint5]

If you have some lights on your house, then they won't even see the red glow. I know where mine are and I don't see them due to the houselights.

These cameras do not see the 940nm non-visible IR - well they do but the effective distance is cut back tremendously.

Your image above suffers from the biggest mistake people make - trying to do too much with one camera.

The distance of that car to IDENTIFY people is too far away for that camera. I would go no more than 30 feet to IDENTIFY with the ZE. You need more optical zoom.

Good call on IR not being visible if other lights are on. Normally my exterior lights are off (I'm trying to catch thieves), but my cams are mounted in a way they are obscured from directly being illuminated by the lights, so it should work out well.

As you mentioned about estimating distance, using IPVM it seems the distance was more like 70ft. I had no intention of getting ID at that distance, I just happened to capture the incident. Camera is mounted under the eve of the house and it was meant to keep an eye on people that enter the front porch or go near the garage, as those are the 2 most viable entrances.

I'd add a camera you can run in color mode also, to give you color data - along with the license plate camera(s)

I finally (last night) added my 2nd 5442T-ZE to the other corner of my house and have it forced into color for exactly that reason. Still not enough zoom power, but I get 2 angles and color now.

I reached out to Andy about the camera wittaj mentioned, as well as an indoor cam to mount in the window next to the door.

 

[bradner]

I considered IR, but I don't like the visible glow that would inform thieves about the cameras, as I want to catch them, not deter.

I'd much rather deter than even worry about catching. I hope any perps see all my cams!! I had a realtor showing a neighbors house and I heard them saying "wow, more cameras than a casino" when looking at my place. I'm moving my big PTZ to the front pole of my yard this spring to make it even more visible . I don't care if my place gets cased and they see the cams and move on without "catching them in the act". To much hassle dealing with after effects of a crime, I'll take deterrence first anytime.

I have two old nonfunctioning Ubiquiti UVC-Pro cams that look like something from the military (over a foot long bullet weighing 5lbs+ each) that I'm going to mount somewhere visible just for show even.

I have a couple neighbor kids that like riding down to my driveway and talking to my cameras - I'd rather everyone know I have cams, and lots of them!!

 

[bradner]

Good call on IR not being visible if other lights are on. Normally my exterior lights are off (I'm trying to catch thieves), but my cams are mounted in a way they are obscured from directly being illuminated by the lights, so it should work out well.

As you mentioned about estimating distance, using IPVM it seems the distance was more like 70ft. I had no intention of getting ID at that distance, I just happened to capture the incident. Camera is mounted under the eve of the house and it was meant to keep an eye on people that enter the front porch or go near the garage, as those are the 2 most viable entrances.


I finally (last night) added my 2nd 5442T-ZE to the other corner of my house and have it forced into color for exactly that reason. Still not enough zoom power, but I get 2 angles and color now.

I reached out to Andy about the camera wittaj mentioned, as well as an indoor cam to mount in the window next to the door.

You look like you have some great mounting spots for added dawn to dusk LED lighting on your facia boards above your garage! I'd be all over that - if no issues with HOA or something...

 

[redpoint5]

I get that most people prefer deterrence, but I was born with a stronger desire than most to protect others. Was sure I was going to be a cop when I was a kid.

Every time someone has stolen from me, I get a sick feeling and just know 300 other people have gone through the same experience just because of 1 scumbag. Would rather put a stop to it and avoid the next 300 people going through all that. Also, these kids are doing petty crime, and an intervention might be enough to set them on a better course. I don't care about the Coke they took so much as the trajectory they are on.

The last thing stolen from me was a '91 standup jetski on a trailer. Was parked outside at my parents farm out in the country. After that happened, I was motivated to finally install security cams at both my parents place and mine. That was years ago now... my project list is long and I'm slow to finish it.

 

[bradner]

I get that most people prefer deterrence, but I was born with a stronger desire than most to protect others. Was sure I was going to be a cop when I was a kid.

Every time someone has stolen from me, I get a sick feeling and just know 300 other people have gone through the same experience just because of 1 scumbag. Would rather put a stop to it and avoid the next 300 people going through all that.

The last thing stolen from me was a '91 standup jetski on a trailer. Was parked outside at my parents farm out in the country. After that happened, I was motivated to finally install security cams at both my parents place and mine. That was years ago now... my project list is long and I'm slow to finish it.

I hear you about catching them but you'll need to spend more and do more than mounting the cams on your house if you really want "capture" quality video. Another user installed mailbox cams at the end of his driveway to hide them and get real close good captures. From your distance away, even the 5442's won't be enough I think for what you want, you'll need to go up a notch if upgraded lighting isn't an option. I hear where you're coming from though for sure about catching but my priority is MY place first and anything extra is a bonus.

If you really want to catch someone, you may need some bait near your garage where they will be closer to your cams. But then what, do you want some perp armed with who knows what getting that near to your entry points?

 

[redpoint5]

More to your point, if I really want to catch someone I need to be alerted as it happens. Would need something super sophisticated to not wake me when it's normal activity, but to wake me when something suspicious is going down. Certainly can't ID with the equipment I have unless they walk onto my porch.

I'll experiment with putting the exterior lights on tonight. I've got both cams zoomed all the way in now. I will run one B/W and the other color.

I'm concerned about the mailbox too, but it's way down the street (400ft or so), and I'd have to mount a camera right near the sidewalk to get the angle needed to keep an eye on it.

Perhaps I should mount a 360 cam on the peak of the roof to track the route perps take, with my front facing cameras getting the ID of the vehicle.

 

[wittaj]

Keep in mind you will need to get the angle for LPR as well. You need to try to get as straight on as possible to the front and back of the car. Side shots won't do. So your 50 or 70 feet may end up being 150 feet.

Depending on the lay of your land, you can certainly use something like BI to alert you to certain events.

For example, if nobody should be out walking around in your area from midnight to 4am, then set up an alert to let you know when someone is out there.

You and @IReallyLikePizza2 will get along here LOL. He is legendary on here for going after people:

Scaring people away with a flashlight

This guy lives a block away at a shitty apartment. What on earth are you doing outside my house for almost an hour? (About to throw trash, thats what) Looks like they started shining a flashlight, so I joined in. They didn't like it If you're reading this ABEL CALIXTO PUAC CASTRO, sit outside...

ipcamtalk.com

Hammer won't smash a window - failed break in attempt

Here is the clip from the LPR Cam

ipcamtalk.com

Shining Flashlight does not work, need to bring guns back out

They got me good, bags of leaves 2ft onto my lawn, which the neighbors then picked back up These guys are not happy I've confronted them throwing their trash in the road, and they got a letter from Don't Mess With Texas about littering

ipcamtalk.com

MY OWN NEIGHBORS throwing their empty modellos outside my house

It never ends, does it? I looked up their plate, turns out they were around the corner... I went and gave it back to them. They denied it of course, then once I said I had it on video, said they had nowhere to put it (yet their giant city trash can was right there) Next time I'll get my...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[redpoint5]

I'll have to figure out alerts better, and figure out how to use BI. I know how to set do not cross zones and such... wondering if I can flag things differently depending on if it's a car or a person?

Angles and distance are an issue since I really only have 2 or 3 decent spots to mount cameras, with trees blocking the view at either side of my driveway.

Here's approximately how I have my 2 cameras setup at the moment. The highlighted one is approximately where the truck was parked. Image quality is way worse than the example below.

 

[wittaj]

With Deepstack you can do and add lots of things.

Yeah, IPVM way over estimates the quality, especially at night and anything more than 20 feet or so.

Not only would the ZE have trouble at that distance, so would the Z4E

With the trees, you have difficult angles to try to get plates from the house. You may have to consider doing what others have done and get a camera closer to the street - up in a tree, on a mailbox, in a hose reel, etc.

 

[redpoint5]

Yeah, I've been wondering around pretending to be a camera and trying to figure out where I most want to live. That first big tree near the sidewalk at the top of the driveway seems ideal, aimed south. My cop neighbor to the north has kids that are always parking on the street, obstructing the view. I could just put a camera on a pole, but I'm still trying to be a little inconspicuous. Certainly don't want thieves stealing my cameras.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

The bullet has bit stronger IR than the turret one, so if at low light place and want to get a bit longer view, just use the IPC-B5442E-ZE or the IPC-B5442E-Z4E

Here is a example for the Z4E, just make sure have a good angle to capture the license plate.

LPR For IPC-B5442E-Z4E

Here are some pics for LPR with IPC-B5442E-Z4E. Zoom in to Max. Drive way around 120ft. Just do some simple setting.

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Steve.L]

I see no point in trying to catch them, the PDs don't even want to catch them. And it's not like it will teach them a lesson, thievery is their occupation, and the justice system is just a revolving door, they're out in no time and back to work come the next Monday. Better to just avoid the headaches if at all possible and lay low trying to avoid trouble. Alternatively, just set bait to lure them in make a hobby out of trying to catch criminals, LOL.

 

[CCTVCam]

Cameras looking through windows generally don't do well due to reflections and bounce from IR etc.

By all means have an indoor camera but stick to it capturing indoors. If you want to capture an area outdoors, put a camera there.