PTZ recommendations needed....

taprackbang

taprackbang

Young grasshopper
Sep 24, 2023
40
14
usa
So, I'm slowly rolling out my camera setup as when I have free time/motivation to do so. Have about 6 amcrest 4mp turret cameras and then I went for a Vikylin PTZ-4820-ITZ () due to price and it has auto tracking. Whilst it is ok for the price point, the tracking is a bit spastic. As soon as someone comes in the frame, many times it will jump to the direction they entered the frame in....but overshoot and then they are gone from the frame and nada, nothing. It's half way like it's scared to see anyone and turns it's head. Other times, it does pretty well. Anyhow, I want to move this one to a different location thats less crucial and get something better for this spot.

So, obviously I'd like solid tracking of humans/vehicles and then anything else that can be tracked is a bonus as we are in the country and i'd like seeing the critters that roam around. Since we are in the country there's no artificial light, unless we are making it, so nighttime performance is a big plus. I currently am running frigate in a container on my unraid server, but may spin up a instance of BI if I start to feel frigate falling short in my needs. I assume most any camera suggested would work just fine with either of these two. I have a curve in the road that we live on that grants a good opportunity for LPR (at least in daytime) so if one lends itself to that in some way, that might be worth considering.

That all said, I was initially (before finding this forum) about to but a Panoeagle 49825GB-HNR based on a review I'd seen on youtube of it. However, the amazon listing for it says it's a 49825GB-HNR, but then further down in the listing states its a item number is PG49825XB-HNR. So, I'm not 100% sure what I'm getting there and the best i could tell from attempting to cross-reference Dahua is that the XB is a model down.

Another camera I came across and like, but can't find enough info on is the PTZ1A225-HNR-XA that Empire Tech has on sale. It looks solid, but I can't source any solid info on picture quality, how well tracking works, etc. Best I can tell is that it was a pretty pricey camera back in the day, but looks to be a discontinued/closeout sort of item now.

Anyhow, that's where I'm at and welcome any recommendations, advice, etc. Would like to keep camera cost around $500. Thanks in advance.


attached a video of the PTZ being shy :(
 

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taprackbang said:
So, I'm slowly rolling out my camera setup as when I have free time/motivation to do so. Have about 6 amcrest 4mp turret cameras and then I went for a Vikylin PTZ-4820-ITZ () due to price and it has auto tracking. Whilst it is ok for the price point, the tracking is a bit spastic. As soon as someone comes in the frame, many times it will jump to the direction they entered the frame in....but overshoot and then they are gone from the frame and nada, nothing. It's half way like it's scared to see anyone and turns it's head. Other times, it does pretty well. Anyhow, I want to move this one to a different location thats less crucial and get something better for this spot.

So, obviously I'd like solid tracking of humans/vehicles and then anything else that can be tracked is a bonus as we are in the country and i'd like seeing the critters that roam around. Since we are in the country there's no artificial light, unless we are making it, so nighttime performance is a big plus. I currently am running frigate in a container on my unraid server, but may spin up a instance of BI if I start to feel frigate falling short in my needs. I assume most any camera suggested would work just fine with either of these two. I have a curve in the road that we live on that grants a good opportunity for LPR (at least in daytime) so if one lends itself to that in some way, that might be worth considering.

That all said, I was initially (before finding this forum) about to but a Panoeagle 49825GB-HNR based on a review I'd seen on youtube of it. However, the amazon listing for it says it's a 49825GB-HNR, but then further down in the listing states its a item number is PG49825XB-HNR. So, I'm not 100% sure what I'm getting there and the best i could tell from attempting to cross-reference Dahua is that the XB is a model down.

Another camera I came across and like, but can't find enough info on is the PTZ1A225-HNR-XA that Empire Tech has on sale. It looks solid, but I can't source any solid info on picture quality, how well tracking works, etc. Best I can tell is that it was a pretty pricey camera back in the day, but looks to be a discontinued/closeout sort of item now.

Anyhow, that's where I'm at and welcome any recommendations, advice, etc. Would like to keep camera cost around $500. Thanks in advance.


attached a video of the PTZ being shy :(
Click to expand...
IIRC, forum member @wittaj has a DH-PTZ1A225-HNR-XA and should have some good info and maybe some videos he can share with you.
 
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wittaj said:
I do not have that PTZ, but two of my neighbors do and love it.

It is the same as the 49225 PTZs that I have, just a different form factor.

You cannot go wrong with any of these that are all on the ideal MP/sensor ratio:
Click to expand...
How is the tracking on your 49225 cameras? I could expect the exact same performance from the PTZ1A2M-25X, just with more range of motion due to form factor? Have any videos you’d mind sharing to highlight video quality and tracking ability? Is the tracking limited to humans and vehicles?
 
Yes it is the same tracking firmware just more range of motion. The tracking is awesome. But it is not plug-n-play and takes time to dial it in to your field of view, but it will perform better than some no name LOL.

There are review threads here showing the capabilities.


Review - Dahua SD49225XA-HNR 2MP 25x Starlight + IR PTZ AI Camera with Deep IVS & SMD Plus

Ok, so whats better than 1 review…….2 reviews……in tandem :) Read on to find out more. All, thanks to Andy (@empiretecandy ) we have a new 2MP AI camera for testing. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review. This is a new PTZ with 4.8mm to 120mm focal...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com

Review-SD4A425DB-HNY 1/2.8" CMOS 4MP 25x Starlight Auto-tracking MiniPTZ

Courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY with have a new Mini PTZ to check out. You can currently purchase here: link Amazon link coming soon. Price as of this writing is approximately $370 shipped. **Please keep this thread on topic I've spent a LOT of time working with Andy and an Engineer at Dahua...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com





@Cold-Lemonade just got this form factor and can probably share his most recent videos.
 
Do they continue to update the firmware/features on these cameras? The panoeagle I was originally considering was advertised to have “auto tracking 3.0”. Do the ones we’re discussing have that or a version of that and if so, is it actively updated by Dahua or does hardware limit the ability to update?

Gonna go checkout the links you posted.
 
taprackbang said:
Do they continue to update the firmware/features on these cameras? The panoeagle I was originally considering was advertised to have “auto tracking 3.0”. Do the ones we’re discussing have that or a version of that and if so, is it actively updated by Dahua or does hardware limit the ability to update?

Gonna go checkout the links you posted.
Click to expand...

You go from a no name to overboard on research now LOL (just giving you a hard time as many of us where there - I started with a Sunba LOL). These Dahua OEM autotracking are awesome, but keep in mind anything can be faked out and you won't get 100%. Field of view and setting up is critical for success.

You do not want the Panoeagle as that is 8MP on the 1/2.8" sensor, so it would need over 4 times the amount of light to produce as bright of an image as the 2MP version - the MP version will kick its butt all night long.

See this thread comparing how shoving too many MP on the same size sensor makes it harder to work right at night.

Comparison between PTZs - the 49225 versus 49425 versus Mini-PTZ - mailbox checker

We recently had a group come thru checking mailboxes, so I wanted to share the differences between the PTZs. I purchased these from @EMPIRETECANDY The 49225 was the sub $400 autotracking king of PTZs. It sports 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor. This camera is still being sold, but autotracking has...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com



You have to be careful with firmware updates - some of the updating INTENTIONALLY removes the autotracking (so that people buy the more expensive version) - especially the 4xxxx series that you are looking at from Panoeagle.

Lot's of threads here were people come here after updating...in fact most here will say regardless of camera do not update as it usually breaks what you have working....

You really need to be asking yourself why are you updating? If it is just for grins and giggles or OCD behavior to be running the latest firmware, think twice.

A common theme around here is don't fix what ain't broke. If the unit is working and meets your needs, in many instances an update breaks what you had working and provides you with something you didn't need or bricks the camera. In most instances, updates are simply security vulnerability patches (usually years after the breach was found), but since we do not give our cameras internet access, the update is useless to us.

Here is one of many threads of someone updating for OCD behavior simply to get all cams on same firmware and bricked them. Here is one of many threads where someone had their camera go into Chinese when they tried to update it.

Unless the release notes specifically mention it fixing a problem you are experiencing, more than likely it won't fix an issue and may make the camera worse by removing functionality or worse brick it.

Here are issues I have seen people report here where they were upgrading just for the sake of upgrading:
  • Dahua 5241E-Z12E that someone updated and then constantly reboots.
  • Dahua 49225 and 49425 PTZ that Dahua intentionally removed autotracking with an update to force people to buy the more expensive PTZ.
  • Hikvision DS-2DEA425IW-DW PTZ that Hikvision intentionally removed autotracking with an update to force people to buy the more expensive PTZ (*V5.7.3 220315 -Remove auto-tracking functions on DE4A).
  • Hikvision ANPR camera losing half the FPS and loses the ability to read US plates - those are big deals to have happen, especially if you live in the USA.
  • Hikvision ANPR DS-2CD4A26FWD camera that lost all ability to read plates - kinda makes a plate reader camera useless.
  • Hikvision camera that the user lost ability to control the LED light function at night.
  • Hikvision DS-7616NI-Q2 NVR that has the APIs changed. This is a big deal if you run automation.
  • Hikvision DS-7616NI-K2 NVR that loses basic functionality when updated.
  • Hikvision wifi camera that loses the ability to use wifi after a firmware update and was intentionally removed due to too many complaints that the camera was dropping signal.
  • DH-DB61 Doorbell that loses API functionality. A big deal for someone with automation.
  • DS-2CD2387G2-LU that loses API functionality. A big deal for someone with automation.
  • Hikvision iVM4200 v3.8 - loses the free ability to use the computer as storage and now need to subscribe.
  • Dahua IPC-HFW1320S that started phoning home using 60MB/hr and costing someone thousands of dollars in data overages when he got his next mobile bill.
  • Dahua 5442 that will not allow playback of the SD card.
  • Dahua NVR58XX-4KS2 that had custom protocol (ability to add a camera via RTSP) removed possibly to force people to purchase same brand cameras.
  • SmartPSS that intentionally removed the ability to use the Intercom for those with VTO devices after firmware version 2.02.08
  • Countless other instances where the camera or NVR simply bricked and became useless.
  • Countless examples where the camera or NVR went into Chinese.
  • Manufacturers are now preventing their equipment to be updated with an older working firmware after it was updated to a more recent firmware.
Don't do it unless it is fixing a problem you are experiencing or adds a feature you really need.

Another thing to consider is that the same model could have different firmware for different chipsets used during the life of that model. So you run the risk of bricking if you do not know what chipset you have.

Here is an example - the HFW3549T1-AS-PV is available in 2 versions of firmware across 3 different chipsets for the same model camera:
  • HFW3549T1-AS-PV-S4 uses the HX3XXX-Taurus firmware.
  • HFW3549T1-AS-PV and IPC-HFW3549T1-AS-PV-S3 use the HX5XXX-Volt firmware
In this instance, Dahua added an S# designation after the model number (while Hikvision adds a C), but many do not and then you try to update with a firmware not compatible with your chipset and potentially brick it.


Further, it is best to obtain any firmware updates from the vendor you purchased it from so that you do not run into issues. Any firmware you find here or elsewhere is obviously proceed at your own risk. We have many threads here where someone tried an update with a firmware they found on the internet and bricked their unit.

Many units being sold are Chinese hacked units into English that will either brick or go into Chinese upon updating. Some vendors will be upfront and tell consumers that as part of their website, but many do not or the consumer forgets...here is one such example....

1695569616648.png
 
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wittaj said:
You go from a no name to overboard on research now LOL (just giving you a hard time as many of us where there - I started with a Sunba LOL). These Dahua OEM autotracking are awesome, but keep in mind anything can be faked out and you won't get 100%. Field of view and setting up is critical for success.

You do not want the Panoeagle as that is 8MP on the 1/2.8" sensor, so it would need over 4 times the amount of light to produce as bright of an image as the 2MP version - the MP version will kick its butt all night long.

See this thread comparing how shoving too many MP on the same size sensor makes it harder to work right at night.

Comparison between PTZs - the 49225 versus 49425 versus Mini-PTZ - mailbox checker

We recently had a group come thru checking mailboxes, so I wanted to share the differences between the PTZs. I purchased these from @EMPIRETECANDY The 49225 was the sub $400 autotracking king of PTZs. It sports 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor. This camera is still being sold, but autotracking has...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com



You have to be careful with firmware updates - some of the updating INTENTIONALLY removes the autotracking (so that people buy the more expensive version) - especially the 4xxxx series that you are looking at from Panoeagle.

Lot's of threads here were people come here after updating...in fact most here will say regardless of camera do not update as it usually breaks what you have working....

You really need to be asking yourself why are you updating? If it is just for grins and giggles or OCD behavior to be running the latest firmware, think twice.

A common theme around here is don't fix what ain't broke. If the unit is working and meets your needs, in many instances an update breaks what you had working and provides you with something you didn't need or bricks the camera. In most instances, updates are simply security vulnerability patches (usually years after the breach was found), but since we do not give our cameras internet access, the update is useless to us.

Here is one of many threads of someone updating for OCD behavior simply to get all cams on same firmware and bricked them. Here is one of many threads where someone had their camera go into Chinese when they tried to update it.

Unless the release notes specifically mention it fixing a problem you are experiencing, more than likely it won't fix an issue and may make the camera worse by removing functionality or worse brick it.

Here are issues I have seen people report here where they were upgrading just for the sake of upgrading:
  • Dahua 5241E-Z12E that someone updated and then constantly reboots.
  • Dahua 49225 and 49425 PTZ that Dahua intentionally removed autotracking with an update to force people to buy the more expensive PTZ.
  • Hikvision DS-2DEA425IW-DW PTZ that Hikvision intentionally removed autotracking with an update to force people to buy the more expensive PTZ (*V5.7.3 220315 -Remove auto-tracking functions on DE4A).
  • Hikvision ANPR camera losing half the FPS and loses the ability to read US plates - those are big deals to have happen, especially if you live in the USA.
  • Hikvision ANPR DS-2CD4A26FWD camera that lost all ability to read plates - kinda makes a plate reader camera useless.
  • Hikvision camera that the user lost ability to control the LED light function at night.
  • Hikvision DS-7616NI-Q2 NVR that has the APIs changed. This is a big deal if you run automation.
  • Hikvision DS-7616NI-K2 NVR that loses basic functionality when updated.
  • Hikvision wifi camera that loses the ability to use wifi after a firmware update and was intentionally removed due to too many complaints that the camera was dropping signal.
  • DH-DB61 Doorbell that loses API functionality. A big deal for someone with automation.
  • DS-2CD2387G2-LU that loses API functionality. A big deal for someone with automation.
  • Hikvision iVM4200 v3.8 - loses the free ability to use the computer as storage and now need to subscribe.
  • Dahua IPC-HFW1320S that started phoning home using 60MB/hr and costing someone thousands of dollars in data overages when he got his next mobile bill.
  • Dahua 5442 that will not allow playback of the SD card.
  • Dahua NVR58XX-4KS2 that had custom protocol (ability to add a camera via RTSP) removed possibly to force people to purchase same brand cameras.
  • SmartPSS that intentionally removed the ability to use the Intercom for those with VTO devices after firmware version 2.02.08
  • Countless other instances where the camera or NVR simply bricked and became useless.
  • Countless examples where the camera or NVR went into Chinese.
  • Manufacturers are now preventing their equipment to be updated with an older working firmware after it was updated to a more recent firmware.
Don't do it unless it is fixing a problem you are experiencing or adds a feature you really need.

Another thing to consider is that the same model could have different firmware for different chipsets used during the life of that model. So you run the risk of bricking if you do not know what chipset you have.

Here is an example - the HFW3549T1-AS-PV is available in 2 versions of firmware across 3 different chipsets for the same model camera:
  • HFW3549T1-AS-PV-S4 uses the HX3XXX-Taurus firmware.
  • HFW3549T1-AS-PV and IPC-HFW3549T1-AS-PV-S3 use the HX5XXX-Volt firmware
In this instance, Dahua added an S# designation after the model number (while Hikvision adds a C), but many do not and then you try to update with a firmware not compatible with your chipset and potentially brick it.


Further, it is best to obtain any firmware updates from the vendor you purchased it from so that you do not run into issues. Any firmware you find here or elsewhere is obviously proceed at your own risk. We have many threads here where someone tried an update with a firmware they found on the internet and bricked their unit.

Many units being sold are Chinese hacked units into English that will either brick or go into Chinese upon updating. Some vendors will be upfront and tell consumers that as part of their website, but many do not or the consumer forgets...here is one such example....

View attachment 173091
Click to expand...
Yeah,I have a tendency to go overboard on research….drives my wife nuts. I think I’m leaning toward the PTZ1A2M-25X.
 
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Pretty sure I’ll need a wall mount for the camera as I don’t thing it will work out under the eve. Is the PFB730W the only mount that will work with it? I’d rather have one that didn’t stick out from the wall as much.
 
wittaj said:
What is the eve made of? My neighbors are wood soffit and they just screwed it right into that and shoved the cable up the hole.
Click to expand...

No eve on the end of house I want the camera that is parallel to the ground, it’s at a pitch. However, looking at this old pic, I might be able to put it where I’ve indicated. I don’t think the gutter system is in the way anywhere there. That is actually where I originally wanted one, so this may work out.
 

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taprackbang said:
So, I'm slowly rolling out my camera setup as when I have free time/motivation to do so. Have about 6 amcrest 4mp turret cameras and then I went for a Vikylin PTZ-4820-ITZ () due to price and it has auto tracking. Whilst it is ok for the price point, the tracking is a bit spastic. As soon as someone comes in the frame, many times it will jump to the direction they entered the frame in....but overshoot and then they are gone from the frame and nada, nothing. It's half way like it's scared to see anyone and turns it's head. Other times, it does pretty well. Anyhow, I want to move this one to a different location thats less crucial and get something better for this spot.

So, obviously I'd like solid tracking of humans/vehicles and then anything else that can be tracked is a bonus as we are in the country and i'd like seeing the critters that roam around. Since we are in the country there's no artificial light, unless we are making it, so nighttime performance is a big plus. I currently am running frigate in a container on my unraid server, but may spin up a instance of BI if I start to feel frigate falling short in my needs. I assume most any camera suggested would work just fine with either of these two. I have a curve in the road that we live on that grants a good opportunity for LPR (at least in daytime) so if one lends itself to that in some way, that might be worth considering.

That all said, I was initially (before finding this forum) about to but a Panoeagle 49825GB-HNR based on a review I'd seen on youtube of it. However, the amazon listing for it says it's a 49825GB-HNR, but then further down in the listing states its a item number is PG49825XB-HNR. So, I'm not 100% sure what I'm getting there and the best i could tell from attempting to cross-reference Dahua is that the XB is a model down.

Another camera I came across and like, but can't find enough info on is the PTZ1A225-HNR-XA that Empire Tech has on sale. It looks solid, but I can't source any solid info on picture quality, how well tracking works, etc. Best I can tell is that it was a pretty pricey camera back in the day, but looks to be a discontinued/closeout sort of item now.

Anyhow, that's where I'm at and welcome any recommendations, advice, etc. Would like to keep camera cost around $500. Thanks in advance.


attached a video of the PTZ being shy :(
Click to expand...

FYI - PTZ camera discussed ..

1695580213378.png
 
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Quick question, slightly off topic. Frigate doesn’t yet support any PTZ functionality. Can I have one of my other cameras trigger the PTZ camera to move to a preset….all independently of any type of nvr?
 
taprackbang said:
Quick question, slightly off topic. Frigate doesn’t yet support any PTZ functionality. Can I have one of my other cameras trigger the PTZ camera to move to a preset….all independently of any type of nvr?
Click to expand...

The camera is what tracks not the type of VMS system. So if frigate can trigger another camera to move to a preset, then yes you can do it. But you need a VMS system that would allow a fixed cam to be triggered and call up the preset either via a command in the VMS software or the ability in the VMS software to call up an API to move the PTZ.
 
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So cameras can’t have a onboard motion trigger fire off a onvif command to another camera independently?
 
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