Mid-range IP residential system for indoor/outdoor Turret vs Dome. First time setup

[nutshellml]

Evening all... So I've been doing some research and starting a partial remodel on the house. Want to take advantage and put about 4-6 IP POE cameras outside and 2-3 inside. The outside ones will be mounted under soffits of roof and pointing to sidewalk which I would say is about 50' max. same for backyard cameras, a 50' max distance, and i'm not sure I need any audio features. For the indoor, I'm hoping to have the least obtrusive doom possible, I saw Hikvision has some recessed domes, and the distance to the opposite side of the largest room is about 35'. It's an open concept area. Finally, I must be able to connect them to my computer and use Blue Iris or similar software. I don't want to purchase a NVR/DVR and I don't think I need variable focus.

That said I really need some help as I'm desperately confused on where to go with equipment.
1) What Hikvision bullet do you recommend for outside. I was considering the DS-2CD2032-I either 2.8 or 4 (i've seen the calculator) but still not sure.
2) What's the major difference w Dome v Turret?
3) The indoor I'm considering the DS-2CD2132F-I in a 2.8, will that give me enough distance to see the length of the room 35'?
4) With the POE Switch/Injector, what's the max length that I can run to the camera?
5) Setup for house/residential - I was thinking of using a separate computer for the cameras, getting a nice sized drive for recording and putting the POE centrally located in the house. Anyone see anything majorly wrong with that setup with approx 8 cameras?

Thank you very much for ANY advice.

 

[Q™]

Re: Mid-range IP residential system for indoor/outdoor Turret vs Dome. First time set

For me I found that there was less IR reflection out side with turrets over bullets and domes.

 

[nutshellml]

Re: Mid-range IP residential system for indoor/outdoor Turret vs Dome. First time set

Thanks.. Another Question. I've tried the ipvm site, but what would you all recommend in order to actually try it out at/around the exterior of the house? Buy one 4mm see how that is at night during the day and field of view? Or get a Variable Focus?

 

[dalepa]

Re: Mid-range IP residential system for indoor/outdoor Turret vs Dome. First time set

Evening all... So I've been doing some research and starting a partial remodel on the house. Want to take advantage and put about 4-6 IP POE cameras outside and 2-3 inside. The outside ones will be mounted under soffits of roof and pointing to sidewalk which I would say is about 50' max. same for backyard cameras, a 50' max distance, and i'm not sure I need any audio features. For the indoor, I'm hoping to have the least obtrusive doom possible, I saw Hikvision has some recessed domes, and the distance to the opposite side of the largest room is about 35'. It's an open concept area. Finally, I must be able to connect them to my computer and use Blue Iris or similar software. I don't want to purchase a NVR/DVR and I don't think I need variable focus.

That said I really need some help as I'm desperately confused on where to go with equipment.
1) What Hikvision bullet do you recommend for outside. I was considering the DS-2CD2032-I either 2.8 or 4 (i've seen the calculator) but still not sure.
2) What's the major difference w Dome v Turret?
3) The indoor I'm considering the DS-2CD2132F-I in a 2.8, will that give me enough distance to see the length of the room 35'?

Go with the turrets. 1-2 4mm in the front an back over looking the driveway, backyard. Use a 2.8mm over the front/back door. done. Also consider a Hik 2432 inside

4) With the POE Switch/Injector, what's the max length that I can run to the camera?
5) Setup for house/residential - I was thinking of using a separate computer for the cameras, getting a nice sized drive for recording and putting the POE centrally located in the house. Anyone see anything majorly wrong with that setup with approx 8 cameras?

Thank you very much for ANY advice.

300ft is rated length for ETH/POE. PC with BI works great.

See my recommendations below for more info.

 

[dalepa]

Re: Mid-range IP residential system for indoor/outdoor Turret vs Dome. First time set

Get 1 2.8mm and 1 4mm turret for starters. You will quickly see where they work best.


Here's a photo my 2 hik2032's at 4mm over the garage and my Hikvision DS-2CD3345-I at 2.8 over the front door.

A 4mm may work better over the front door, just depends on your walkway. 2 4mm cams work great over the garage and give a 180deg view. Where a single 2.8mm would give much less detail at this distance. I also get 2 camera views of the center of the driveway which is nice.

Thanks.. Another Question. I've tried the ipvm site, but what would you all recommend in order to actually try it out at/around the exterior of the house? Buy one 4mm see how that is at night during the day and field of view? Or get a Variable Focus?

 

[LaurentR]

Re: Mid-range IP residential system for indoor/outdoor Turret vs Dome. First time set

Some pointers from my recent install:
* The 3MP models are the worst performers in low light. They also tend to be older models. So I recommend getting the newer 2MP or 4MP, which may also have better features like full 3-axis (turrets), real WDR (really useful in settings where you have sunlit areas) and H.264+ (if you need to reduce your storage requirements). Read the datasheets.
* For indoor, I find that the turrets blend in better than the domes. The turrets a bigger than the mini-domes (but comparable/smaller than the big domes), but they look more like alarm-type stuff (PIR...) vs the domes which have a clear surveillance connotation.
* The 4MP turrets (2CD2342) have a 106 degree FOV, which is more than 90. They are good for indoor corners, although you'll see the walls on both sides (or even outside the windows). For indoor, the turrets are nice too because of their power IR. You basically get noise-free picture under IR. I had tried the 3MP cubes and was very disappointed by the noise in a small room (weak IR + low-sensitivity sensor).
* Use the IPVM calculator, but enter manually the FOV from the datasheet. For several cams like the turret above, the IPVM calculator substantially undercalculates the FOV.
* As far as variable focus, it can be useful, but it is expensive. If you can get close enough with an available fixed-lens cam, go with that. 2.8mm could to the trick if you can only have 1 cam and what you are looking at works, but a set of well placed 4mm is probably better outdoor (better pixels-per-foot). 4mm with 4MP is a great combo.
* As for the PC, I use a Synology NAS, but even then, the client can get very taxed when you have multiple MP cams simultaneously. If you're building or buying a PC for that, I recommend getting one with a high TDP, so you can sustain high CPU frequencies for a while. For instance a NUC with a quad max 3GHz (but 25W) CPU will be much worse than a regular PC with a quad max 3GHz (but 65W) CPU as the regular PC will be able to sustain the 3GHz vs the NUC probably 1.5GHz. Look at the CPU's sustained (TDP) frequency, not the Turbo frequency for this kind of use case.

 

[john-ipvm]

Re: Mid-range IP residential system for indoor/outdoor Turret vs Dome. First time set

* Use the IPVM calculator, but enter manually the FOV from the datasheet. For several cams like the turret above, the IPVM calculator substantially undercalculates the FOV.

We updated the DS-2CD2342WD-I to include all 3 AoV / focal length options. Thanks for the feedback. If there are any other models that need to be corrected or updated, let me know / PM me.

 

[LaurentR]

Re: Mid-range IP residential system for indoor/outdoor Turret vs Dome. First time set

We updated the DS-2CD2342WD-I to include all 3 AoV / focal length options. Thanks for the feedback. If there are any other models that need to be corrected or updated, let me know / PM me.

Thanks John. I was actually going to post a question on IPVM, but why is there such a discrepancy between calculated FOV based on imager size + focal length and actual FOV? It took me some time to convince myself that the calculator couldn't possibly be right given the output, but I am still confused as to why.

 

[john-ipvm]

Re: Mid-range IP residential system for indoor/outdoor Turret vs Dome. First time set

LaurentR, good question and one we have ran into ourselves as well. Some, but not all cameras, have a discrepancy between the calculated / theoretical FoV based on image size + focal length. For example, our calculator, Theia and JVSG all list a 2.8mm lens on a 1/3" imager as 81.2 degrees but that Hik model lists it as 106.

I do not what the reason is for the Hikvision discrepancy but, some general reasons include the actual dimensions being different than the conventional size listed (i.e., 1/3" is not the actual physical measurement) and some manufacturers only use a portion of the sensor. We'd like the theoretical to match the actual every time but have not yet found a way to do so. Anyone with ideas, feel free to share. Thanks.

 

[LaurentR]

Re: Mid-range IP residential system for indoor/outdoor Turret vs Dome. First time set

LaurentR, good question and one we have ran into ourselves as well. Some, but not all cameras, have a discrepancy between the calculated / theoretical FoV based on image size + focal length. For example, our calculator, Theia and JVSG all list a 2.8mm lens on a 1/3" imager as 81.2 degrees but that Hik model lists it as 106.

I do not what the reason is for the Hikvision discrepancy but, some general reasons include the actual dimensions being different than the conventional size listed (i.e., 1/3" is not the actual physical measurement) and some manufacturers only use a portion of the sensor. We'd like the theoretical to match the actual every time but have not yet found a way to do so. Anyone with ideas, feel free to share. Thanks.

Is all the discrepancy from the inexact (to be polite) "conventional size" way of measuring imagers or is there something else? Is there a link with lenses being aspherical and imager aspect ratios varying quite a bit (since what we care about is the horizontal FOV, which will vary based on the aspect ratio for a given sensor "conventional diagonal size".

Clearly, there is something fishy, as Hik's 3MP version of the same turret advertises a FOV of 86deg (close to the calculated number) or 98deg depending on the output resolution, while the 2MP version is at 109, close to the 4MP at 106.

 

[pedrokv]

Re: Mid-range IP residential system for indoor/outdoor Turret vs Dome. First time set

Regarding FOV, I found some FOV calculator on internet. Then I took photos with my Fuji Finepix camera, zoomed to calculated zoom, then I had an idea, what I will see and how. I also resized the picture I got to dimensions same as the IP cam has.

Regarding power-buy 8/9 port gigabit POE 802.3af switch from Aliexpress, I think it is the cheapest option, I have two for around 68USD each and now I bought third, 9 ports for 54usd. The first two works fine, they also pass through VLAN tags, so I am able to power VLAN Wifi AP to split guests and my family in my house.

Regarding case type-I decided to use only turrets. Yes, the are bigger, are all white (because of sun heating), but can be set in 3 axles and has the best picture. Also, cannot be vandalized easily by broom stick. I have also experience, that altough neighbours saw me working outside under roof, they don't know I have cams there.

Regarding model-I have 2332/2335 from Aliexpress. 2 originals, 2 chinese hacked. Now I buy only originals and currently 2312 to the roof top, to have an overview cameras, to see what's going on our garden and fence. If few months ago were 2342 cheaper, I would buy them instead of 2332, because of better low light sensitivity and WDR. I saw comparison video on youtube, see here: . Altough it is not 2342, but 2742, I expect same result. You have to think a lot on where is sun shining, from which angle, where and when. Same as when you took your holiday photos. If a part of FOV gets in shadow and thief moves there, you will have less or no details, when you not use WDR. And even with WDR on 2332, it will be nothing great. I expect to get same great result with 2342 as presented in YT video mentioned above.