Is Empire still the deal? Ready to move ahead. And a quick share on the robbery after failing to heed the warnings.

fastline12

Young grasshopper
Oct 12, 2024
62
9
US
I will be brief on that second part. Last time I was here, you guys were 'beyond' helpful and got me right up to speed. I designed a slick system for a large, multi-building business complex that needed cams badly. The owner didn't set the priority, and that place took a $500k hit! Yup, within weeks of my warnings, the criminals spent hours in there over 2 days hauling off equipment, tools, vehicles! A single camera could have prevented it!

But onto my stuff. I'm being proactive. I don't have near the risks at all at a remote property, but I want it done. Part and pieces are already on the way and what I am building is a Dell micro PC NVR that I am networking. My list of cams will be very limited right now but everything is getting put in my 400sf steel shed/power building. I know exactly how the bad guys will come in because there is only one way. But part of this is monitoring wildlife at night.... One of my targets is the main driveway with line of sight at 500ft. I want to set a varifocal right on that. I am hoping I can get decent AI tripwire function there so if any human or vehicle makes the turn, I am aware. In short, I want to lean pretty heavy on the AI aspects with I/O functions. I'd like to eventually get this running with Blue Iris but will take what I can get for now. I seem to recall Empire was the deal on genuine Dahua cams, but lots of work trying to align model numbers. Either way, I believe because of the variability here, I probably need variable zoom so I can make changes as I learn from nighttime patterns.

All of the "goods" are closer to the cams so if you can imagine a 500ft driveway, but they have to come all the way in if they want the goods, which is well within 50ft of cams. If someone, and I mean even government, gets within 200ft of cams, my I/O things will happen. I'm not doing this to document a theft, I want them to know Im watching, heat is coming, and probably time to bounce. In the near future, I will have a dedicated cam pole out near that 500ft mark so I will both have superior visibility there, but also a stiff deterrent.

As for the building, its small so I'd just run CAT wire to these. I was told not to get cams that play games with "full color", have lights, etc. But reality is I will prob toss something on the building with the cams so if they get close, even if the cams have to adjust for a few seconds, I need that visible alert. I mean, I won't see it, but it will be a spot light they won't be expecting.
 
Having bright white Dahua Bullets and Turrets against an earth tone Brick building caught peoples eye.
Putting camera's in the 3 laundry rooms at the 74 unit Condo I worked at caused a change in human behavior.
The bulletin Board Nasty gram writer stopped overnight.
The biggest opposition to my camera placements turned out to be the most disturbing wack job resident who was a Prison guard at State prison.
keying cars, writing nasty grams, etc. coming onto single women in the hallways....

They say this is what Passive deterrence is. But it sort of was like active deterrence in a way because
I could see people noticing cameras in the lobby and the entry way.
 
And OMG! I just looked at Empire and wasn't prepared for the sticker shock! I'm open to ideas!
everything has gone thru the roof with prices.
 
Appreciate! Im still trying to grasp the prices. Was pretty set on Empires but as I am reading, there are some newer players on the field due to a few factors. Curious how Uniview and such are stacking up? Software, optics, value?
 
I'm thinkin I saw somewhere on here that even Empiretech has been getting screwed with to offer more cams that are NDAA compliant. So his offerings have taken on some new names i believe over on Amazon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JDreaming
And from what I can tell, no more "deals". Just full pop on the Empire site?

Because if the hike, I'm shaving this down to "need" for now. So here is the requirement, I'm setting one cam on the soffit of a building that is 630ft away from the only property entrance. I need a tripwire out there but also gather intel on vehicle traffic. Because it is so rural, this should condense footage down to like 10min/day. I was trying to run some DORI specs to figure this out but Empire has the 4mp 1/1.8", 32mm, or a 2mp, I think 1/2.8", 60mm. HOnestly, I feel about 40mm is a sweet spot but I would also like the larger FOV of the 32mm. These are varifocals, in which the 60 would be a no brainer other than the mp and sensor size.

Curious on thoughts? I realize this wont' be ideal but for now, with 2 cams at the only drive area, there is a 600ft gauntlet they must traverse. I say that because I realize a reliable tripwire at night may not work out well but as they move closer, with IR, they will eventually trip something. Eventually I will have a security pole out there, but not today.
 
630 feet you need a PTZ.

A fixed 32mm or 60mm cam will not provide reliable IVS tripwire functions, nor will it give you any intel on vehicle traffic. And keep in mind a fixed cam is fixed focus and will not adjust focus as an object moves closer.

DORI is a nice tool in the tool box, but these numbers are under ideal situations with a marketing spin and real world experiences of DORI is that those numbers are established by the manufacturer and are based on best case scenarios like an object not moving and ideal light conditions.

Real world you should cut them in half during daytime and cut that half in half or more at night time for cameras on ideal MP/sensor ratios.

You would need to get into the Recognize and Identify range for any good intel on vehicle info.
 
I think anything with a proper 1/1.8 sensor in PTZ is going to be out of the budget. Even if I have to accept issue, I need to select the best fixed varifocal for this. It won't be the only cam, but that entrance is pretty important. I had planned for multiple tripwires along the drive, hoping something at night will snag it as IR starts to light things up, and as I will have more than one cam aimed in that direction, my hope is the IR intensity is good enough.

Again my goal may not be to ID any visitors, but rather get tripwires set so I can be alerts as well as the visitors knowing they have been caught.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JDreaming
You mean out to the road? or the 630ft location? No. But it will in time. I plan to install a cam/light pole right there, but it ain't happn this year. Im trying to survive the diesel hit right now.
 
Or if all you want is triggers as far out as possible, consider a thermal camera.

My 3ishmm focal length thermal is very accurate at triggering for people at 600 feet. You could get the 7ish mm version for even better accuracy at distance. The visual would struggle even during the day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JDreaming
As a newbie here and having purchased EmpireTech cams at both the pre and post prices, given all the choices out there, I landed with the 541R/5442 models for low light (no ambient light at night) image quality. I could choose something cheaper with noticeably lesser results, but that makes no sense to me because I want to be able to actually identify human targets.
 
Last edited:
If it has power, another option would be a nanostation if there is a direct line of site.
Already have the nanos for that exact plan. Just can't do it right now. How can an PTZ pull that in with no prob, but a fix cam can't do it?

Fully agree on thermal and reminds me a friend in pro cam work had some FLIRs he was pulling some time back. Even an older free FLIR is better than no FLIR.


But what you're saying is no way tripwires will work at that distance? NOt enough pixels to define the shape?
 
TBH, in a rural area even a PTZ will struggle at 630 feet unless you get a PTZ with laser. But the PTZ with the higher focal length will beat the fixed cam of at least half the focal length.
 
I'm thinkin I saw somewhere on here that even Empiretech has been getting screwed with to offer more cams that are NDAA compliant. So his offerings have taken on some new names i believe over on Amazon.
Time to market them as Dildo cams then see how Amazon looses their cool
 
Prices have gone through the roof and I can't see them coming down in even the far future, tis the way of the world and AI :)

With respect to your comment re the robbery, I think with cams you would have been able to the perps in action, determined criminals aren't scared of put off by the cams judging my the brazen clips that I have seen.