Dahua WizColor 5x59-PRO and SmartLight 5x59-IL new series

[steve1225]

Avigilon.

And how much typical installation using Avigilon cost?
Camera alone? Plus Avigilon VMS server & license for that functionality?

The question again:
Have you tried it yourself or just posting more marketing material ?

For now I have one test camera. Installed in "easy" place where old AI worked very well - so new AI do well.

But I ordered 20 new 54PRO cams from Andy for next installs. With 4 * 54PRO-Z4E for remote street / car monitoring.

So in future I should have more data how these new cameras with the new AI perform in real conditions in various installations.

 

[steve1225]

Have you tried it yourself or just posting more marketing material ?

One more thing - it another time you poke into me because I post technical or marketing materials from Dahua... Or use data from them.

I'm a technical guy, which selects and installs tons of different hardware... cams and very small part of it.

Technical specifications & product brochures & documentation are the basis for selecting a product to meet the customer's or installation's needs. After the initial selection based on manufacturer materials, tests on real HW are conducted to determine whether the product will actually perform - sometimes don't and I must find something else...

90% questions of this forum are created because people CAN'T (or WON'T) to read fucking specification, product brochure or manual

 

[Jahua95]

One more time - it another time you poke into me because I post technical or marketing materials from Dahua... Or use data from them.

I'm a technical guy, which selects and installs tons of different hardware... cams and very small part of it.

Technical specifications & product brochures & documentation are the basis for selecting a product to meet the customer's or installation's needs. After the initial selection based on manufacturer materials, tests on real HW are conducted to determine whether the product will actually perform - sometimes don't and I must find something else...

90% questions of this forum are created because people CAN'T (or WON'T) to read fucking specification, product brochure or manual

You are absolutely right, the only way to explain something is to refer to specific information provided by manufacturer - technical or marketing this is REFERENCE point to the facts

 

[DeeBeeCee]

so how good is the ai and Zone based detections right now?
As for me, the funcrions from Unifi AI and there whole Settings with this cams was a really poor experience.

I do not want to spend month again in finding bugs in Software and be a Part of a Beta Community for Full priced products.

 

[steve1225]

so how good is the ai and Zone based detections right now?
As for me, the funcrions from Unifi AI and there whole Settings with this cams was a really poor experience.

I do not want to spend month again in finding bugs in Software and be a Part of a Beta Community for Full priced products.

AI functionality is better that unifi one (especially before G6 cams).
Video performance (at night especially) kills everything from Ubiquiti.

Problem with HIK / Dahua is that they have old software platforms.. with old UI / UX.
Not so good NVR interface - functional, but you must learn it. Very limited mobile app/desktop app in comparison to Unifi ones...

Here is a demo of AI functionality on 3 years old 5442-Z4E-S3 camera with 3 years old 5232-EI NVR - Video Meta Data over street traffic with human / faces / vehicles / car plates / non motor vehicles detection & classification (age, sex, cloth types & colors, car brands & types etc).

Now Dahua is in process of releasing of Next GEN AI based on new Xinghan AI models, which should be even better that 2022 technology we had before..

I wait for WizSeek demo & new 5xxx-XI-PRO NVRs release with the latest AI tech from Dahua - which we should see next month..

It should be the functional equivalent of connecting a Ubiquiti NVR with a Ubiquiti AI Key (for WizSeek & AcuSeek functionality) and multiple (8/16) AI Ports (for classic AI functionality for many older cameras).

 

[DeeBeeCee]

That’s exactly the reason why I want to jump on board now. If the AI was already better than Unifi’s before, then with Xinghan it should only get better.

An important point you mentioned: usage outside the WLAN worked flawlessly. The interface was also very good. However, when there are only a few functions, everything naturally looks cleaner, doesn’t it?

The thumbnails you provided are worlds better in quality compared to what Unifi delivers. While Protect does store a face recognition snapshot, you can hardly recognize anything on it. The camera applies a zoom level that I can’t even configure myself. The images are mostly unusable, as they are far too magnified. At night, recognition hardly worked at all anymore, and every update only made it worse.

For example, how well does it work if I set up a boundary line and the floodlight of the camera is supposed to turn on when it’s crossed? Is that possible? Can I also configure it so that when the line is crossed, multiple cameras turn on their lights?

This may sound like basic functionality, but even that didn’t work properly with Unifi.

 

[steve1225]

The thumbnails you provided are worlds better in quality compared to what Unifi delivers. While Protect does store a face recognition snapshot, you can hardly recognize anything on it. The camera applies a zoom level that I can’t even configure myself. The images are mostly unusable, as they are far too magnified. At night, recognition hardly worked at all anymore, and every update only made it worse.

Please remember that I used camera with tele-photo lens (Z4E), which have 2x-6x zoom ratio (where normal varifocals like Dahua ZE or all varifocals from Ubiquiti have 0.5-2.0x zoom ratio). And zoom-in optically image to concentrate on the street. Ubiquiti don't have cams like this.

For example, how well does it work if I set up a boundary line and the floodlight of the camera is supposed to turn on when it’s crossed? Is that possible? Can I also configure it so that when the line is crossed, multiple cameras turn on their lights?

Activated by human/vehicle motion white Flood lights on TIOC/TIOC-PRO/WizColor models works very well.

Camera can be arm'ed and configured to have alarm using siren/speaker or even on TIOC/TIOC-PRO models there are extra blue/red police lights...

But this always works per camera, there is no connection between cameras. Arm'ing/disarm'ing is per system (NVR).

 

[DeeBeeCee]

Ok but you can set this behavior in NVR? I would like to use 2 T54pro ZE around the entrance at my garden. While one would have clear sight, the other will not. But both should turn on the light by entry.

„ Please remember that I used camera with tele-photo lens (Z4E)“

Is there a Turret Version of this available? Or Kind of to get clear Images of faces at around 15 Meters?

 

[steve1225]

Ok but you can set this behavior in NVR? I would like to use 2 T54pro ZE around the entrance at my garden. While one would have clear sight, the other will not. But both should turn on the light by entry.

There is no connection between cameras - so no. Each camera will detect and turn on flood light alone.

If you want support from many cams to many lights around house - you must do own lights around house, use electric relay to turn them on and connect that relay to ALARM-OUT on 5xxx NVR...

then you can configure on which cam which event will turn on this ALARM-OUT output and your all lights..

„ Please remember that I used camera with tele-photo lens (Z4E)“

Is there a Turret Version of this available? Or Kind of to get clear Images of faces at around 15 Meters?

no, only bullet.. Z4E optics are bigger ones//

 

[DeeBeeCee]

Ok. Got it. Thanks.

 

[JPmedia]

I understand, I just want to finish my setup. I still need two fixed lenses with 3.6mm and 2-3 2.7-12mm cameras. I don't want to buy twice.

Why not? I end up buying three, four and 5 times and then get bored and move onto something else.

 

[tigerwillow1]

because software is hard. much harder that developing new hardware.
and require years to fine-tune & finish.

On every new hardware on the market (mobile, tv, smart gadgets, cameras, drones etc) first versions of software/firmware when released are bad. And requires some time to find bugs & finish missing features.

Having spent much of my career doing software for a large corporation I'll push back on this. It is entirely possible to produce software that performs well and is relatively bug free, but the corporations choose not to, for both cost and time-to-market reasons. They know that sending out defective hardware has the potential to bankrupt them. They also know that the manufacturing cost of replacing defective software rounds off to zero, The development people are constantly frustrated knowing that an unfinished buggy product is being ripped away from them and shipped out as a finished product. One of the mottoes is "There's never time to do it right but there's always time to do it over".

It is a dilemma. Send out a product that's full of bugs, customers will get mad but you can hopefully placate them eventually with bug fixes. But if it's too awful it can get a bad reputation and be destroyed in the marketplace. On the other hand, if you don't send the product out until it's finished, some competitor will release their buggy product and carve out market share that you'll never recover. The manufacturers as a group have chosen to compete with buggy products.

Similar to the feeling that BI has a shaky code base, Dahua made a terrible design decision in making every event into a new file in the NVR. From a management and marketing perspective I'm confident that it looked great, leveraging the OS file system to keep track of events, saving a lot of design and coding work. They're locked into this design and I also imagine it has, and will continue to, cause a lot of headaches. When my NVR was new, this system worked so bad that the video of what triggered the event was lost as the firmware switched files. Single stepping skipped right over the most important part of the video. Firmware updates improved the situation, and by now it might look seamless to the user, but there has to be a lot of ugly and expensive to maintain code in there to paper over an inherent design flaw. This is a case where BI does it right, with its own indexing mechanism, and it just works well.

 

[steve1225]

Similar to the feeling that BI has a shaky code base, Dahua made a terrible design decision in making every event into a new file in the NVR. From a management and marketing perspective I'm confident that it looked great, leveraging the OS file system to keep track of events, saving a lot of design and coding work. They're locked into this design and I also imagine it has, and will continue to, cause a lot of headaches. When my NVR was new, this system worked so bad that the video of what triggered the event was lost as the firmware switched files. Single stepping skipped right over the most important part of the video. Firmware updates improved the situation, and by now it might look seamless to the user, but there has to be a lot of ugly and expensive to maintain code in there to paper over an inherent design flaw. This is a case where BI does it right, with its own indexing mechanism, and it just works well.

I think this is one of the architecture decisions done 20 years ago, when Dahua started as company doing simple DVR recorders..

No one then was thinking about AI and possibility to have hundreds / thousands of events per hour per camera.. And no one want now to try to change this - to risky work, especially touching some core code no one touched for many years

PS. lack of seamless transitions between partial video files in web browsers is more problem of wrong implementation done by Dahua. All YouTube/netflix/disney movies/footage is stored on servers as 2/4/8 second long partial video files. This is part of HTTP Live Streaming standard (Apple HLS and universal MPEG-DASH) and allows streaming, fast skipping/jumping over video movie and switching between different versions (different resolution, quality, HDR/SDR/Dolby standard, audio track) on the fly in web browsers. We don't see that partial video files are merged on the fly on modern web players - everything is done seamless.