Dahua: all in one answer for home security?

[Holbs]

I started here at IpCamTalk back in 2019 for home video security while an employee at a low voltage cabling business.
I am now the owner of said business.
With the gained knowledge via IPCT of what the difference is between a crappy camera and quality camera, focal length, aperture settings, etc. , I am starting to branch out my business into applying this knowledge as a business as well.
I'll be starting with domestic violence victims, disabled vets, special need children residential atmospheres. Why? I remember the day I really really needed cameras & help the day after a violent security event happened, I called around to the local security outfits, and was very dismayed at the cost, time delay of installation of 3-4 weeks out (I had the gut feeling they prioritized their big profit business operations vs personal small profits).
For now, probably will do cameras, NVR, cabling at cost, no profit other than covering .... well, cost of material and labor. I have talked to my employees, and they agree they would take a labor pay cut to help people out in these types of situations. Subject to change but I want to see how doing the 'right' thing goes for this small subsection of my business as a whole and what impact it may or may not create.

Anyways, while looking at various IP cameras at Andy's site, Dahua USA, and Dahua International, I came across various other neat little items.
1.) Dahua now has 4 models of dash cameras! I have had BlackVue, Nexus, Viofo... heck, might as well try out this Dahua camera as well.
2.) Wireless cameras. 4-5 different models. I currently have the floodlight camera which I find not too shabby (though not as super as the 'ol 5442's).
3.) Body cameras. Yep, Dahua has a body camera. Was thinking of getting one as could be super handy when I prefield a 200 network cabling job with a customer to record spaces that need to stand out and audio, to pass to my employees.
4.) Home Alarm systems aka "AirShield". Hub, door, water, glass break detector, etc.
All integrated into the single DMSS app (and DoLynk Care installation company software) as one cohesive security end user and installation company app.

Why try these things out? I respect what Dahua has done for the IP cameras where they bring "quality" into the equation. No idea if a dash cam, body cam, home alarm system are the same quality they put into their IP cameras. But to my mind, they have a quality track record with the IP cameras so worth a shot.

I know IPCT mostly deals with home IP cameras. But has anyone tried out the other products from Dahua? For business and/or residential settings?
Who knows... this could lead into trying out for an Dahua official dealer and/or installer type of venture.

 

[Mark_M]

DoLynk Care is a good app for installers. Most of the needed tools to setup a device, without needing to use it's screen attached.
I suggest going through an authorised distributor, so that you get support from Dahua tech when there's issues.

Newer NVR 4 interface and NVR 5 NEXT have the ability to add AirSheild alarms in. So that your AirSheild alarm remote can arm/disarm TiOC cameras, TiOC cameras can trigger AirShield sirens, etc.
I haven't used a Dahua dash camera before, or the body camera. The body camera is a compact unit in person.

 

[Holbs]

DoLynk Care is a good app for installers. Most of the needed tools to setup a device, without needing to use it's screen attached.
I suggest going through an authorised distributor, so that you get support from Dahua tech when there's issues.

Newer NVR 4 interface and NVR 5 NEXT have the ability to add AirSheild alarms in. So that your AirSheild alarm remote can arm/disarm TiOC cameras, TiOC cameras can trigger AirShield sirens, etc.
I haven't used a Dahua dash camera before, or the body camera. The body camera is a compact unit in person.

Andy just told me the bodycam MTP230 is $400'ish so that is a no go (for my use).
I just may sign up to become a Dahua "partner" and work with Andy alot more closely and/or authorized dealer such as ADI. Wish Graybar USA was authorized dealer but Dahua says only Graybar Canada. I'll have to ask questions.

 

[nihomox]

I started here at IpCamTalk back in 2019 for home video security while an employee at a low voltage cabling business.
I am now the owner of said business.
With the gained knowledge via IPCT of what the difference is between a crappy camera and quality camera, focal length, aperture settings, etc. , I am starting to branch out my business into applying this knowledge as a business as well.
I'll be starting with domestic violence victims, disabled vets, special need children residential atmospheres. Why? I remember the day I really really needed cameras & help the day after a violent security event happened, I called around to the local security outfits, and was very dismayed at the cost, time delay of installation of 3-4 weeks out (I had the gut feeling they prioritized their big profit business operations vs personal small profits).
For now, probably will do cameras, NVR, cabling at cost, no profit other than covering .... well, cost of material and labor. I have talked to my employees, and they agree they would take a labor pay cut to help people out in these types of situations. Subject to change but I want to see how doing the 'right' thing goes for this small subsection of my business as a whole and what impact it may or may not create.

Anyways, while looking at various IP cameras at Andy's site, Dahua USA, and Dahua International, I came across various other neat little items.
1.) Dahua now has 4 models of dash cameras! I have had BlackVue, Nexus, Viofo... heck, might as well try out this Dahua camera as well.
2.) Wireless cameras. 4-5 different models. I currently have the floodlight camera which I find not too shabby (though not as super as the 'ol 5442's).
3.) Body cameras. Yep, Dahua has a body camera. Was thinking of getting one as could be super handy when I prefield a 200 network cabling job with a customer to record spaces that need to stand out and audio, to pass to my employees.
4.) Home Alarm systems aka "AirShield". Hub, door, water, glass break detector, etc.
All integrated into the single DMSS app (and DoLynk Care installation company software) as one cohesive security end user and installation company app.

Why try these things out? I respect what Dahua has done for the IP cameras where they bring "quality" into the equation. While I’m exploring these products for potential security system services, I have no idea if a dash cam, body cam, or home alarm system matches the quality they put into their IP cameras. But to my mind, they have a quality track record with the IP cameras, so it’s worth a shot.

I know IPCT mostly deals with home IP cameras. But has anyone tried out the other products from Dahua? For business and/or residential settings?
Who knows... this could lead into trying out for an Dahua official dealer and/or installer type of venture.

That’s an incredible journey, from learning on IPCamTalk to running your own business and now using your skills to help vulnerable people. Your approach of providing cameras, NVRs, and cabling at cost for domestic violence victims, disabled vets, and special needs children is truly admirable and shows a commitment to doing the right thing. Regarding Dahua’s other products, their dash cams and body cams generally maintain the same quality as their IP cameras, especially in terms of image clarity and build. The AirShield system seems solid, particularly with DMSS integration, but testing it in a small setup first is smart. Exploring these products could definitely open doors for a dealer or installer role. Your plan to trial first and expand cautiously makes perfect sense.

 

[The Automation Guy]

With my 2 minute Google search, I have to say that I am skeptical about the Air Shield product. While I am not opposed to using wireless hardware (contacts, PIR, etc) it really depends on the wireless technology being used. I couldn't find that out, so I would want to know more before I used it. Obviously hardwired systems are much better however and the fact that this system is wireless only is not great. That's not what really concerns me the most however. What concerns me the most is that it seems to be a "Cloud only" solution. From the videos I watched, it seems like all user's interactions with the system rely on the cloud server, even when the individual is on the local site. That would 100% be a NO GO. Relying on a cloud for ANY automation system is problematic. First, it's not a valid long term option because it is only a matter of time before Dahua changes directions and doesn't want to pay the expensive of maintaining the cloud service. They are not going to maintain it forever and when they flip off the cloud server, the alarm equipment is going to stop functioning. More importantly, even if you loose this cloud connection temporarily, your alarm system isn't going to function correctly. You certainly don't want something as important as a home alarm system to reply on some internet and cloud connection to work correctly. This is a huge downside to using a "cloud only" based solution.

Now it is completely possible that I am misunderstanding how the system works, but there are a lot of questions I would want answered before I used this in my own house and certainly before I started installing it in other people's homes.

PS - here is an image from one of the Dahua videos that concerns me about the cloud implementation. This guy is literally sitting next to the device and yet the communication stream is clearly going to the cloud server first and then down to the device.

......

 

[Holbs]

With my 2 minute Google search, I have to say that I am skeptical about the Air Shield product. While I am not opposed to using wireless hardware (contacts, PIR, etc) it really depends on the wireless technology being used. I couldn't find that out, so I would want to know more before I used it. Obviously hardwired systems are much better however and the fact that this system is wireless only is not great. That's not what really concerns me the most however. What concerns me the most is that it seems to be a "Cloud only" solution. From the videos I watched, it seems like all user's interactions with the system rely on the cloud server, even when the individual is on the local site. That would 100% be a NO GO. Relying on a cloud for ANY automation system is problematic. First, it's not a valid long term option because it is only a matter of time before Dahua changes directions and doesn't want to pay the expensive of maintaining the cloud service. They are not going to maintain it forever and when they flip off the cloud server, the alarm equipment is going to stop functioning. More importantly, even if you loose this cloud connection temporarily, your alarm system isn't going to function correctly. You certainly don't want something as important as a home alarm system to reply on some internet and cloud connection to work correctly. This is a huge downside to using a "cloud only" based solution.

Now it is completely possible that I am misunderstanding how the system works, but there are a lot of questions I would want answered before I used this in my own house and certainly before I started installing it in other people's homes.

While I personally agree with your statements, I fully understand DIY home automation and DIY home IP cameras systems are a small group of people as compared to the world at large.
Sure, my free Home Assistant is doing wonders in combination with my DSC home security panel and Blue Iris & IP cameras for me and my house. I'm proud of that and always thankful for the suggestions & comments from others here on IPCT to help guide me.
But in reality, I am probably the only person & home in my entire community of 500 houses that has gone this route.

The world at large is entering into the "I need it now with convenience, AOK to sacrifice my privacy and security to save a few dollars" age of technology with dominant AI and the cloud. Shake your fists to the sky, scream warnings out of a bull horn all you want but the masses of people will blindly follow this formula.
As a businessman, I have to weigh the personal side vs business side. Sure personally, I wish every person did they own thing instead of relying on the cloud or AI. But that kind of talk will have people looking at you as if you are suggesting using oxen to pull a wagon cart instead of using a motorized vehicle. But my business side says there are 98% more people who will hire me to install such security systems as AirShield because of using the term 'cloud' and 'wireless'.
If the general public wants to walk off the plank, I am hoping they hire me to build the plank first

 

[The Automation Guy]

If the general public wants to walk off the plank, I am hoping they hire me to build the plank first

I get that.

I guess it all comes down to your client's expectations. If you get a phone call every time their alarm system isn't working correctly because the system lost connection with the cloud for some reason outside of your control, it still becomes "your problem". Not only will you spend a lot more time having to take these types of calls, your customer's opinion of your company is going to rely in large part on this cloud connection - again something that is totally out of your control.

So while you might build the best plank ever know to mankind, if your customers can't access the plank due to internet or Dahua server issues that are completely unrelated to the quality of your plank, they are still going to blame you and your company and potentially smear your company's name for issues you have no control over.

Furthermore, WHEN Dauhua decides to shut down this cloud server, your company is going to blamed because you sold them "a pile of worthless junk". Best case scenario, this happens far enough in the future that you are long retired and/or sold the business, but this is an end result that is unavoidable IMHO.

 

[Holbs]

I get that.

I guess it all comes down to your client's expectations. If you get a phone call every time their alarm system isn't working correctly because the system lost connection with the cloud for some reason outside of your control, it still becomes "your problem". Not only will you spend a lot more time having to take these types of calls, your customer's opinion of your company is going to rely in large part on this cloud connection - again something that is totally out of your control.

So while you might build the best plank ever know to mankind, if your customers can't access the plank due to internet or Dahua server issues that are completely unrelated to the quality of your plank, they are still going to blame you and your company and potentially smear your company's name for issues you have no control over.

Furthermore, WHEN Dauhua decides to shut down this cloud server, your company is going to blamed because you sold them "a pile of worthless junk". Best case scenario, this happens far enough in the future that you are long retired and/or sold the business, but this is an end result that is unavoidable IMHO.

We are a business phone system dealer, we already deal with that. 60% of off-site IP phones and 40% local in office phones are cloud based in varying forms. Customers have accepted 'Da Cloud' dependability is out of their hands, out of my hands. Everyone blames Elon in those situations

 

[Holbs]

I get that.

I guess it all comes down to your client's expectations. If you get a phone call every time their alarm system isn't working correctly because the system lost connection with the cloud for some reason outside of your control, it still becomes "your problem". Not only will you spend a lot more time having to take these types of calls, your customer's opinion of your company is going to rely in large part on this cloud connection - again something that is totally out of your control.

So while you might build the best plank ever know to mankind, if your customers can't access the plank due to internet or Dahua server issues that are completely unrelated to the quality of your plank, they are still going to blame you and your company and potentially smear your company's name for issues you have no control over.

Furthermore, WHEN Dauhua decides to shut down this cloud server, your company is going to blamed because you sold them "a pile of worthless junk". Best case scenario, this happens far enough in the future that you are long retired and/or sold the business, but this is an end result that is unavoidable IMHO.

Mind you... we are/were Toshiba business phone systems since the mid 1990's. Digital phone were the thing. Even in today's world, I offer both IP and digital. Telling my customers the pro's and con's of cloud/IP based dependability. vs digital non-cloud. Still, 95% go IP.
I grew tired of skating uphill.

 

[The Automation Guy]

We are a business phone system dealer, we already deal with that. 60% of off-site IP phones and 40% local in office phones are cloud based in varying forms. Customers have accepted 'Da Cloud' dependability is out of their hands, out of my hands. Everyone blames Elon in those situations

I'm really not trying to be argumentative here, but I think your phone example and the alarm example are very different from each other. People instinctively know that their phones are going out either POTS or via the internet. They aren't going to get as upset about a loss of service due to these systems going down. Even if you get a phone call, it's an easy explanation that the phones are down because the internet is down.

An alarm system is different IMHO because there is no reasonable expectation that the core functionality of an alarm system system needs to rely on the internet to work. Again, if you can adequately explain this to potential clients prior to installation, you will be fine. But personally I would not want to put myself or my company in that position. I would rather offer a more "traditional alarm system" with wireless hardware to make installation easy than install some system that relies on the cloud for core functionality. Or at least offer both types and explain the differences to potential clients. If they choose the cloud solution over the traditional "locally controlled" solution to save a couple of bucks, then you can remind them of this when they call with cloud related problems. But in that case, THEY made the decision between systems. If you only offer cloud based solutions, YOU made the decision for them by only offering cloud based solutions.

 

[Holbs]

I'm really not trying to be argumentative here, but I think your phone example and the alarm example are very different from each other. People instinctively know that their phones are going out either POTS or via the internet. They aren't going to get as upset about a loss of service due to these systems going down. Even if you get a phone call, it's an easy explanation that the phones are down because the internet is down.

An alarm system is very different IMHO. There is no reasonable expectation that the core functionality of an alarm system system needs to reply on the internet to work. Again, if you can adequately explain this to potential clients prior to installation, you will be fine. But personally I would not want to put myself or my company in that position. I would rather offer a more "traditional alarm system" with wireless hardware to make installation easy than install some system that relies on the cloud for core functionality. Or at least offer both types and explain the differences to potential clients. If they choose the cloud solution over the traditional "local controlled" solution to save a couple of bucks, then you can remind them of this when they call with cloud related problems.

Oh... I plan on offering 2 sides of the coin, just like your mentioned. Cloud vs Non-Cloud based. Just like I do with my business phone systems. Even, IP cameras for business/phones. I plan on sticking with Dahua nvr/ip cameras for residential/business and jump on the bandwagon of Unifi Protect systems to cover all bases.
Never put all eggs in 1 basket

 

[HarryCaul]

How about non-Chinese, non-cloud or internet dependent options?

having security critical systems dependent on a single point of failure (an internet connection), and dependent on someone else's system to do alarm processing and notification (mind-bendingly stupid), and having equipment made overseas in a country that is AT BEST adversarial to U.S. interests is just...I can't even get my head around doing any of that on purpose.

Get a real firewall and watch what all this Shenzhen-made stuff is doing.

I'm in the process of purging all the non-NDAA-compliant hardware from my systems, and forcing all processing to local only. It's a real pain in the ass. But someone said something about sacrificing freedom for security once...

 

[HarryCaul]

With my 2 minute Google search, I have to say that I am skeptical about the Air Shield product. While I am not opposed to using wireless hardware (contacts, PIR, etc) it really depends on the wireless technology being used. I couldn't find that out, so I would want to know more before I used it. Obviously hardwired systems are much better however and the fact that this system is wireless only is not great. That's not what really concerns me the most however. What concerns me the most is that it seems to be a "Cloud only" solution. From the videos I watched, it seems like all user's interactions with the system rely on the cloud server, even when the individual is on the local site. That would 100% be a NO GO. Relying on a cloud for ANY automation system is problematic. First, it's not a valid long term option because it is only a matter of time before Dahua changes directions and doesn't want to pay the expensive of maintaining the cloud service. They are not going to maintain it forever and when they flip off the cloud server, the alarm equipment is going to stop functioning. More importantly, even if you loose this cloud connection temporarily, your alarm system isn't going to function correctly. You certainly don't want something as important as a home alarm system to reply on some internet and cloud connection to work correctly. This is a huge downside to using a "cloud only" based solution.

Now it is completely possible that I am misunderstanding how the system works, but there are a lot of questions I would want answered before I used this in my own house and certainly before I started installing it in other people's homes.

PS - here is an image from one of the Dahua videos that concerns me about the cloud implementation. This guy is literally sitting next to the device and yet the communication stream is clearly going to the cloud server first and then down to the device.

View attachment 230924......

so much this. All of it.

 

[wittaj]

How about non-Chinese, non-cloud or internet dependent options?

having security critical systems dependent on a single point of failure (an internet connection), and dependent on someone else's system to do alarm processing and notification (mind-bendingly stupid), and having equipment made overseas in a country that is AT BEST adversarial to U.S. interests is just...I can't even get my head around doing any of that on purpose.

Get a real firewall and watch what all this Shenzhen-made stuff is doing.

I'm in the process of purging all the non-NDAA-compliant hardware from my systems, and forcing all processing to local only. It's a real pain in the ass. But someone said something about sacrificing freedom for security once...

Many, if not most here, have completely isolated their cams from their network and the internet, which allows us to buy the best bang for the buck cameras instead of overpriced NDAA compliant that can still be hacked.....

Well known NDAA compliant companies have been hacked, thus showing that the ban and only using NDAA compliant devices like Verkada doesn't protect you if you give them internet access.

Sadly, too many companies have jumped on the NDAA bandwagon and sell subpar performing cameras and NVRs at a premium price all under the disguise of being secure, which they are not.

It is why we recommend DO NOT LET YOUR CAMERAS OR NVR TOUCH THE INTERNET. You isolate them via VLAN or dual NIC.

 

[HarryCaul]

Many, if not most here, have completely isolated their cams from their network and the internet, which allows us to buy the best bang for the buck cameras instead of overpriced NDAA compliant that can still be hacked.....

Well known NDAA compliant companies have been hacked, thus showing that the ban and only using NDAA compliant devices like Verkada doesn't protect you if you give them internet access.

Sadly, too many companies have jumped on the NDAA bandwagon and sell subpar performing cameras and NVRs at a premium price all under the disguise of being secure, which they are not.

It is why we recommend DO NOT LET YOUR CAMERAS OR NVR TOUCH THE INTERNET. You isolate them via VLAN or dual NIC.

Yep, everything I have is isolated in VLANs and the outdoor camera connections are set up with port based authentication. It's just that I want to start out with minimally sketchy devices, which is probably too much to ask for...

 

[Holbs]

Again... most everyone here at IPCT are DIY persons in their own right. It's why we are all here!
The originating realm of this post is for the general public who do not or will not understand VLANs or Firewalls or changing passwords from 12345678.

 

[wittaj]

Yep, everything I have is isolated in VLANs and the outdoor camera connections are set up with port based authentication. It's just that I want to start out with minimally sketchy devices, which is probably too much to ask for...

Unless you pay for Axis, just about anything else NDAA will be inferior to Dahua and Hikvision during low light conditions.

Most of the DIYs here also care about budget, and we would isolate the system regardless of who makes it, at which point we go for the best value.

 

[HarryCaul]

Unless you pay for Axis, just about anything else NDAA will be inferior to Dahua and Hikvision during low light conditions.

Most of the DIYs here also care about budget, and we would isolate the system regardless of who makes it, at which point we go for the best value.

I'm about to start paying for Axis. Reolink sucks, Ubiquiti sucks very slightly less, but with the added fun of nonexistent documentation or support. I've been playing games with G6 Bullets for a month now, and am about to throw them in a wood chipper just to watch them die.

 

[HarryCaul]

Unless you pay for Axis, just about anything else NDAA will be inferior to Dahua and Hikvision during low light conditions.

Most of the DIYs here also care about budget, and we would isolate the system regardless of who makes it, at which point we go for the best value.

I'm about to start paying for Axis. Reolink sucks, Ubiquiti sucks very slightly less, but with the added fun of nonexistent documentation or support. I've been playing games with G6 Bullets for a month now, and am about to throw them in a wood chipper just to watch them die.

I'm really not trying to be argumentative here, but I think your phone example and the alarm example are very different from each other. People instinctively know that their phones are going out either POTS or via the internet. They aren't going to get as upset about a loss of service due to these systems going down. Even if you get a phone call, it's an easy explanation that the phones are down because the internet is down.

An alarm system is different IMHO because there is no reasonable expectation that the core functionality of an alarm system system needs to rely on the internet to work. Again, if you can adequately explain this to potential clients prior to installation, you will be fine. But personally I would not want to put myself or my company in that position. I would rather offer a more "traditional alarm system" with wireless hardware to make installation easy than install some system that relies on the cloud for core functionality. Or at least offer both types and explain the differences to potential clients. If they choose the cloud solution over the traditional "locally controlled" solution to save a couple of bucks, then you can remind them of this when they call with cloud related problems. But in that case, THEY made the decision between systems. If you only offer cloud based solutions, YOU made the decision for them by only offering cloud based solutions.

You want to see something that will really make you shake your head, spend time on the Ubiquiti community support forum. There are IT guys who think they're physical security experts talking about selling clients Ubiquiti cameras for critical security applications, and don't see anything wrong with the fact that Ubiquiti breaks things and removes functionality every couple of weeks. But that's normal and expected behavior in the IT world. In the actual serious security world, that's absolute clown shoes.

 

[tigerwillow1]

The world at large is entering into the "I need it now with convenience, AOK to sacrifice my privacy and security to save a few dollars" age of technology with dominant AI and the cloud.

A nitpick, I think we entered this many years ago, and it's just accelerating faster. It makes me mad to no end, and the little bit I do to fight against it probably doesn't to much except make me feel good for a while. I'm one of the very few that pays for an email address with a smaller ISP instead of letting google, et all, scan everything I sent and receive. I disconnected the wifi module in the TV that has a camera (and don't connect it otherwise of course). I saw the danger of amazon and microsoft long ago and refuse to be ensnared by them. But now it feels like a losing battle. Places like Home Depot and Walmart have gotten just as bad as Amazon in collecting abusing data. It used to be that credit card transactions at a store were between you and the payment network, but now the stores can skim who you are and fatten the databases they're using for profit. I'm starting to think the time is coming when you won't be able to buy anything anomalously with cash, with the stores having cameras at the registers.