Camera recommendation for a wide area

Jake1979

Jake1979

Getting the hang of it
Nov 4, 2019
226
65
NH, USA
The red circle is where the camera would be placed and the orange lines are where I'd like to monitor.

It is pretty wide and am thinking that a dual lens camera would be good, I don't want to buy 2 cameras if I can avoid it.

Would either of these be good at night? I don't see anything on IR
 
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Jake1979 said:
The red circle is where the camera would be placed and the orange lines are where I'd like to monitor.

It is pretty wide and am thinking that a dual lens camera would be good, I don't want to buy 2 cameras if I can avoid it.

Would either of these be good at night? I don't see anything on IR
View attachment 230878
Click to expand...

HI Jake,

If you are looking at the car parking areas to be covered by one 180 degree camera, I would mount it in the middle of the garage just above the middle garage door.

For your house, I would be looking at multiple cameras.

Certainly, you can start out with one for now.
 
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Same camera, one is bullet format the other turret format.
They have no onboard IR and can’t see IR.

They have white LEDs
 
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mat200 said:
HI Jake,

If you are looking at the car parking areas to be covered by one 180 degree camera, I would mount it in the middle of the garage just above the middle garage door.

For your house, I would be looking at multiple cameras.

Certainly, you can start out with one for now.
Click to expand...

I have a camera at the red location, PTZ, so I'm not going to move locations or add an additional camera at this time due to finances. But, a dual lens camera could would in the spot.


bigredfish said:
Same camera, one is bullet format the other turret format.
They have no onboard IR and can’t see IR.

They have white LEDs
Click to expand...
That's what I was thinking. I'll have to find one that's similar with IR and close to that sensor size.
 
Jake1979 said:
The red circle is where the camera would be placed and the orange lines are where I'd like to monitor.

It is pretty wide and am thinking that a dual lens camera would be good, I don't want to buy 2 cameras if I can avoid it.

Would either of these be good at night? I don't see anything on IR
View attachment 230878
Click to expand...

Distance from camera to the sidewalk leading to the door?
 
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Problem is you need two cameras.

The width means you would have to run a single camera in 2.8mm or 3.6mm wide angle and then you lose ID distance.
So you have an overview camera, but lack of good face ID at the sidewalk entrance to the house, which should be your #1 priority

I'd sacrifice the drive and get a 5442 Z4 to cover the house entrance if I could only do one. The PTZ can take care of the drive, its not as critical.
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EmpireTech 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Vari-focal Bullet Network Camera IPC-B54IR-Z4E-S3

4MP 1/1.8" CMOS image sensor Built-in IR LED, the max. illumination distance is 120 m Deep learning algorithm Supports max. 512 GB Micro SD card Built-in MIC IP67 and IK10 protection SMD 3.0
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50ft
Home_Street-5442-Z4-S3_main_20241020200316_@1.jpg Home_Street-5442-Z4-S3_main_20241014044831_@5.jpg


Or you could try one of these. I have no experience with it but these multi lens with PTZ seem like they could have some applications.
Any chance you could leave some lights on out there at night? Sure would help, its not the most powerful sensor at night, but the onboard LED's may get you enough
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EmpireTech PTZ3E10X-T180 1/2.8" CMOS 8MP+4MP 10x Starlight TiOC Networ

Panorama: Outputs 180° wide angle splicing image Detail: 1/2.8""4Megapixel STARVIS™ CMOS 10x optical zoom Starlight technology Max. 25/30 fps@8M IR distance up to 70 m, warm light illumination distance up to 30 m Active deterrence Auto tracking Lite Perimeter protection Face detection SMD4.0...
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If this camera on your garage has the ONLY purpose of seeing 10'-15' at night to IDENTIFY, T180 will work.
45' distance to cover? Not going to happen with a 2.8mm or 3.6mm (like the T180 has).
We do have a PTZ3E10X-T180 at my shop we are still playing around with. Kinda love it and thinking of 1 or 2 at the house. But it is a 1/2.8" CMOS sensor, not 1/1.8" CMOS sensor so will have night issues. I simply tell folks if you want to see any distance past 10' at night, you need a 1/1.8" sensor.
Big is right...go for B54IR varifocal. Can't go wrong.
 
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We're on a side road off of a not so busy main road; at the moment, our closet neighbor we can't see as he is .4 miles away and the other is further.

My desire would be to see who or what is coming up the driveway or is close to the house in the driveway such as UPS, etc. or walking towards the house, which, thankfully so far has not happened.

I could move the location of the camera from the corner to somewhere near the sidewalk. If you look at my photo, yellow dot there's a man door where I could re-route the CAT6 to. The Pink dot is a man door in the porch. When I was working on the door this summer, I ran a CAT6 for a future door bell camera.



I don't need to ID 70' away, but it's nice to look out and see what is out there when our driveway alarm goes off - usually it's deer.

The PC-B54IR-Z4E-S3, being 8mm, I'm assuming that was suggested for the original location, the red circle? What about for the yellow circle? I can't get a photo right now, but will in the AM looking from that spot.
 
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Seems like the yellow dot would be blocked by the corner if the house? In addition to the red dot location or instead of?

Again with only a single camera location the PTZ or at yellow I suppose looking straight down the driveway a normal varifocal like the new 54PRO ZE

But really you need more than one camera regardless of where you move the mounting point to

If it was me and I couldn’t get a 2nd camera for some reason. I’m trying that PTZ at red location and adding big wattage bulbs in coach lights
 
Without ambient light the 4Kt's and 180 derivatives will see nothing. The night colour cameras do need a minimum level of illumination to work. Leaving the cameras built in white LEDS on will provide some light but it's intensity and reach will be very limited so you would need other dusk to dawn lighting maybe with a reinforcement flood light on a motion sensor (to keep the level of dusk to dawn lighting low) in order for any of these cameras to work. Also running LED's all the time will wear them out. In a light fixture it's a new bulb, in a camera it's a new camera. Also note the comments above about the distance at which the cameras can identify. The 4kt's have a very shallow depth of field.

Using IR cameras you can see in total darkness and extend the range with IR floodlights. You won't see the IR at night apart from maybe a slight glow at the camer itself, which helps to maintain the stealth profile of the cameras and avoid light pollution. However, if you go this route, you're still running IR floodlights if the inbuilt IR isn't enough, and you'll still have the same identification issues if wanting to ID at mutliple distances. You may also find faces become washed out and unidentifiable at close distance unless you point the IR floods carefully to only fill in further away and not close up as you can have too much IR and overwhelm the sensor.

My advice would be consider an IR based camera such as the 54pro given you're in the middle of nowhere and will have no light at all unless you leave lights on all night, in which case night colour becomes possible. Failing that, it means adding light. However, you need to decide what you want to protect and allow this to define the type of lens and the position of your camera as you're not going to be able to identify at the drive end, centre and house from just 1 camera. You might be able to identify at the house and see the rest of the drive with a wide angle. But until they get close up, such a camera won't provide identification.
 
Jake1979 said:
I have a camera at the red location, PTZ, so I'm not going to move locations or add an additional camera at this time due to finances. But, a dual lens camera could would in the spot.



That's what I was thinking. I'll have to find one that's similar with IR and close to that sensor size.
Click to expand...
It sure sounds like the two cameras you initially posted about are not the right cameras for this situation. Not only do they not have any IR capabilities, they literally cover a 180 degree view from their mounting location. (See image and the two blue coverage areas). This is why you would want to mount them in the middle of the garage and not to one side IMHO.

kjhkjl.jpg
 
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Might consider the new 54PRO only because it does do very well in IR mode and has stronger IR.
Plus you can optionally set the white LEDs to come on if the person comes in close to the porch

empiretech01.com

EmpireTech IPC-T54PRO-ZE 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP WizColor Vari-focal Two-way T

4-MP 1/1.8" CMOS image sensor, low luminance, and high definition image. Outputs max. 4 MP (2688 × 1520) @25/30 fps. Built-in multi-core light, the max. IR distance is 60 m and the max. warm light distance is 50 m. With deep learning algorithm, it supports: AcuPick, video metadata, IVS, face...
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Jake1979 said:
To answers your first sentence, no, it's an open porch, I didn't grab a photo from the spot that I said but here's a capture from the current PTZ at the rod dot.

In this photo, the yellow dot is above the ext. Light, green is below.


What I'd like to have is watch the area in the yellow swash: in the following image.

Here's an updated image showing measurements. The pink circle in this photo is an option to mount a camera as well:


This is why I was hoping for a IR based dual camera/lens unit. One to look to the right side and the left for the driveway. There are 2 ext. lights, one on each end of the garage. The camera pointing out to the field is just there to show that I have one, it's more to watch animals, there's no windows or doors on that side of the house.

BUT, I can't find a good dual lens camera with the right size sensor with IR. I suppose where the pink is, I could have just a 2.8mm lens or 4mm (varied focal?) to cover the driveway and possibly a doorbell camera for the porch? As a reminder, the PTZ would be moved to out back where you see the small wooden deck, it would below the roof eve looking out back for the field.

I found this camera: EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-ZE-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Starlight 2.7mm–12mm Vari-focal Turret Security Camera. I have a Hikvision ColorVu DS-2CD2347G1-L 4MP Outdoor Network Turret that I used to use at the old house. It has a 1/1.8" sensor and IR, but it just blows the person's face right out at night.
Click to expand...
Do you know of the DORI formula?
You are asking for a 2.8mm camera of whatever sensor size to identify at 47' at night time.
Not going to happen.
 
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bigredfish said:
Might consider the new 54PRO only because it does do very well in IR mode and has stronger IR.
Plus you can optionally set the white LEDs to come on if the person comes in close to the porch

empiretech01.com

EmpireTech IPC-T54PRO-ZE 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP WizColor Vari-focal Two-way T

4-MP 1/1.8" CMOS image sensor, low luminance, and high definition image. Outputs max. 4 MP (2688 × 1520) @25/30 fps. Built-in multi-core light, the max. IR distance is 60 m and the max. warm light distance is 50 m. With deep learning algorithm, it supports: AcuPick, video metadata, IVS, face...
empiretech01.com empiretech01.com
Click to expand...
How does his IR not blow out the face? Higher shutter speed? Ext light? What about color mode? Is that the led?
 
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