What, the 5 minute charging cars are already on road in China and EU got their first of many 1.5 MW chargers because a big BYD boat will be bringing 5k EV later this year.
bidens incredible transition to electric cars
- Thread starter Old Timer
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Instead of, or in addition to percentages, it would be meaningful to know the distance the car can go on a 5 minute charge.
How many passengers? Fat passengers or skinny passengers? Uphill or downhill? Headwind or tailwind? Highway cruising or bumper to bumper traffic? Hot or cold outside? As some around here say, YMMV!
To me, the point is, they seem to be moving in the right direction. We might be getting left behind.
I'm more interested in a battery that doesn't cost more to replace than a new car.
I should have more carefully worded my comment about wanting to know the range of the 5 minute charge. I'm wondering if this is really a big step forward, or if it's just the company optimizing the charge time at the expense of other things, just to be able to advertise the 5 minute charge? It could for instance be a puny battery that can be charged fast, but not provide enough power to be useful for very many people.
From the picture it looks like they are claiming a 4 minute 22 second charge will go...
(363 miles / 0.97) * (0.70 - 0.10) = 224.5 miles
That's assuming the battery will discharge linearly.
(363 miles / 0.97) * (0.70 - 0.10) = 224.5 miles
That's assuming the battery will discharge linearly.
Fast Charge = Very Hot Battery
Fast Charging = Battery not lasting long
My experience with batteries, it is best Not to fast charge them. But I know nothing about new batteries...
They don't make these bags for nothing:
power.tenergy.com
I've used them for my RC plane batteries when I want a fast charge out in the field....or charging inside the house....even slow charging...I have had my Lipos get too hot to touch many times...
I do trickle charge Motorcycle, UTV, Mower, Vehicles and they seem to do ok over time...but these are lead-acid and they are just Starter Batteries...
But again, not familiar with new Battery Tech...just throwing in my 2 cents...
Fast Charging = Battery not lasting long
My experience with batteries, it is best Not to fast charge them. But I know nothing about new batteries...
They don't make these bags for nothing:
Tenergy Lipo Bag, Fire Retardant Lipo Battery Bag for Charging and Storage, 7x9inches
Tenergy POWER, is our online store for TENERGY that brings our products and the same support directly to customers. Whether you just need basic rechargeable batteries for your HOME, business, school, or projects we're here to help!
power.tenergy.com
I've used them for my RC plane batteries when I want a fast charge out in the field....or charging inside the house....even slow charging...I have had my Lipos get too hot to touch many times...
I do trickle charge Motorcycle, UTV, Mower, Vehicles and they seem to do ok over time...but these are lead-acid and they are just Starter Batteries...
But again, not familiar with new Battery Tech...just throwing in my 2 cents...
Well think China, small people, less weight unless you are a sumo wrestlerHow many passengers? Fat passengers or skinny passengers? Uphill or downhill? Headwind or tailwind? Highway cruising or bumper to bumper traffic? Hot or cold outside? As some around here say, YMMV!
To me, the point is, they seem to be moving in the right direction. We might be getting left behind.
View attachment 247086
, alot of passengers, over crowned nation 
Now think America, Over Weight Big People, alot of sumo wrestlers here,
just go to Walmart, hahahaThese Chinese EVs may not work very good in America, LOL
I'll end this like John
And did they rush to market so quickly to be "the firstess with the mostess" that as @David L alluded to above, that the EV will actually be a 4-wheeled fire bomb ready to destroy your home and anything within a 25 foot radius?
No one can deny that we haven't seen that happening waaay too much with EV's the last few years so the confidence level in the tech to charge those batteries even quicker than before does not inspire "safety first" in my brain......no, I'm thinking it's more like "money first."
Good point. To add, I think one major fear/concern is China being able to control them, Chinese Tech is designed to control their people...Full Gov't control...And did they rush to market so quickly to be "the firstess with the mostess" that as @David L alluded to above, that the EV will actually be a 4-wheeled fire bomb ready to destroy your home and anything within a 25 foot radius?
No one can deny that we haven't seen that happening waaay too much with EV's the last few years so the confidence level in the tech to charge those batteries even quicker than before does not inspire "safety first" in my brain......no, I'm thinking it's more like "money first."
I own way too much Chinese cheap crap already, I don't need a cheap Chinese vehicle too...
Ok better throw in that I do love my Dahua cameras though before the haters/trolls come-a-posting, lol Plus Andy is the best, but he is from Hong-Kong, which IMO is not China.
The battery capacity as in kWh determines the range. The battery tech determines the charging speed. It doesn't matter if this tech is in a liquid cooled motorcycle or a car. It will charge at the same speed. But for a car size battery capacity they need those MegaWatt class chargers that can liquid cool the charge cable and the cable is also suspended from the air with assist because they will be heavy.
A big battery as in big capacity can be charged faster than a smaller capacity battery. Having a EV with bigger battery will charge faster than a EV with smaller battery that is because the charge speed during the first 0 to 50% will be insanely fast but after 50% the charge speed starts to drop and from 80% to 100% the charge speed is too slow, in fact the time it takes will be the same time as it would have taken from 10 to 80%. So very few if any EV owners charge their cars beyond 80%, unless they have a lot of time in hand like still having food, most EV owners with kids will charge to 100% but a guy traveling alone is going to charge just till 80%.
But the Chinese battery tech is so advanced they are quoting the C rate. Most EV sold in North America can charge at 1 to 2.2C. So a ev with 100kWh battery can charge any where between 100kW to 220kW. Where as the Chinese EV battery can charge at 8C, so a 100kWh EV will charge at 800 kW. With battery capable of charging at 12C hitting the OEMs later this year.
In theory if a battery like that arrives to phones, it should charge in the same speed like in under 5 min.
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Lol, the quality control of those Lipo battery is shit. Saw a video of those factories, no clean room, graphite every where on shop floor. So those hobby grade cells cannot be compared to a Tier 1 EV battery manufacturer.Fast Charge = Very Hot Battery
Fast Charging = Battery not lasting long
My experience with batteries, it is best Not to fast charge them. But I know nothing about new batteries...
They don't make these bags for nothing:
Tenergy Lipo Bag, Fire Retardant Lipo Battery Bag for Charging and Storage, 7x9inches
Tenergy POWER, is our online store for TENERGY that brings our products and the same support directly to customers. Whether you just need basic rechargeable batteries for your HOME, business, school, or projects we're here to help!
I've used them for my RC plane batteries when I want a fast charge out in the field....or charging inside the house....even slow charging...I have had my Lipos get too hot to touch many times...
I do trickle charge Motorcycle, UTV, Mower, Vehicles and they seem to do ok over time...but these are lead-acid and they are just Starter Batteries...
But again, not familiar with new Battery Tech...just throwing in my 2 cents...
I too use them , quad copters and RC cars. But for the peace of mind at least for cars I use LiFe batteries. Have one from 2011 that has ballooned in size and still in car.
The EV market is shifting to LFP battery which is safer no fire, even when punctured with a nail. Yes all batteries can cause a short circuit fire but the battery themselves won't add fuel to the fire.And did they rush to market so quickly to be "the firstess with the mostess" that as @David L alluded to above, that the EV will actually be a 4-wheeled fire bomb ready to destroy your home and anything within a 25 foot radius?
No one can deny that we haven't seen that happening waaay too much with EV's the last few years so the confidence level in the tech to charge those batteries even quicker than before does not inspire "safety first" in my brain......no, I'm thinking it's more like "money first."
LFP is also cheaper to produce. China is also shipping Sodium Ion batteries, these are supposed to be even cheaper and safer. But will initially only power Hybrid vehicles or buses or trucks and extreme cold level performance and cycle life.
Having used a battery-backed solar system for 15 years, I've eagerly followed the battery technology. Over and over there's an announcement about a new breakthrough in something like capacity, safety, charge rate, etc., followed by whatever the breakthrough is, slowly fading away. Someday the breakthrough might happen, it's just that all of the false starts have turned me into a skeptic. Same principle as when I hear one of the wars is on the verge of ending.
What has worked over the years is incremental improvements. The technology gap from flooded lead acid to LiFePO4 is big, but it didn't happen quickly or all at once.
What has worked over the years is incremental improvements. The technology gap from flooded lead acid to LiFePO4 is big, but it didn't happen quickly or all at once.
99% of battery announcements are just click bait, youtubers and media hyping the laboratory micro small battery.
But you have to pay attention to what Chinese battery OEMs are announcing they have quietly achieved breakthrough without any hype. Like the top battery OEMs in china CATL, BYD, Gotion, Cherry they announce the products that they are shipping.
As far as solar, on a cell level if you can make your own battery pack, there is hardly any price difference between a flooded lead acid and LifePO4 aka LiFE aka LFP, if you can source the cells from China.
I have only had a few battery RC planes, I did not like them but that was years ago when they first were coming out, they were way too heavy and their runtimes were crap. I did use batteries in my cars/boats though. My 4-stroke Pitts Special is my favorite now. I have had several dozen planes over my life. Been awhile since I have flown though. I have 4 planes left, use to have around a dozen ready to fly at one time in my life. Had a 3 meter glider once I got from Germany, never got to fly it though, it was too big for where I flew...
I'm being bipolar and both agree and disagree. On an upfront purchase, disagree. On a longer term basis, agree. I sourced 21 kWh of LFP from china, 4 years ago, on a promotional deal. The cost of the cells, BMS, case and shipping was $4600. Adding to that things like new cables, enclosure, remote monitoring capability, and a lot of little things took the total up to over $6,000. The BMS makes it difficult to charge above 90% in the running solar system while selling to the grid, and the BMS cuts off discharge at 20%, so I've got about 15 kWh usable for $6,000.
I previously used AGMs. At 50% useful capacity, the equivalent bank would be 30 kWh. This can be done with Trojan 6v golf cart batts for about $9,800, so LFP wins here. With less known brands, around $6k, close to a wash, but longer term LFP still wins with a lot more discharge cycles.
On the flooded end, you can put the equivalent kWh bank together with costco flooded golf cart batts for about $2500. But more seriously, for $3,500 you can get a equivalent set of rolls surette L16 6v batts that claim 1,000 discharge cycles to 20%. The LFP batts claim more discharge cycles but that hasn't been established by the test of time. This rolls setup looks pretty competitive with LFP by the time you build a finished battery. Personally, I'd kill flooded batts over lack of proper maintenance, which is why I'm on LFP. But even with individual cell voltage sensors, cell+BMS temp sensors, class T fuses and DC breakers, I feel like there's an elevated risk of something going wrong vs. flooded or AGM.
May I ask which inverter is this, is it a hybrid inverter or two seperate inverters and what LFP cells where those. The prices of LFP have really crashed in years since you got them. But not sure about tariff.
The thing about flooded batteries is that even if you do proper maintenance, the thing that kills the battery is the inevitable internal short, as you charge and discharge the solid particles released in electrolyte will settle down and when enough of it settles and form a mountain from the bottom of the battery container, they touch the anode and cathode creating a short. If manufacturers could have put some kind of screw type drain plug at the bottom to drain them, we probably would never have to replace them if maintained properly.
Also lead batteries cannot handle the high power load, the voltage sag is a lot higher than LFP and the cycle life conditions quoted by lead acid battery manufacturers are vague and I thinks it's SOH is 50% drop off compared to datasheet from LFP makers which clearly state the SOH after 2000 to 4000 cycles which is mostly 70 to 80% for tier 3 LFP battery manufacturer.
I think the cheapest option would be a EV battery salvage that has a LFP, these are rated more than Grade A battery. But getting them with laser welded tabs is pretty expensive for a DIY.
I't's a big iron Outback inverter/charger that can run standalone or sell to the grid. Just a small system, 8 kW solar and 3600 watt inverter, but when the grid is out it handles everything we need except for the heat pump and electric dryer. At installation time the inverter was at the front of high tech. Now I don't know how many generations it's behind.
I got the cells and BMS together from Seplos and don't know the cell manufacturer. I'd guess either eve or catl. They're 135 Ah prismatic cells with studs, 16 per battery. The inverter is at the edge of its settings limits to use a 51 volt battery, but it does work out. It's really nice to not have to deal with the multi-stage charging dance.
On the Seplos web site now, they carry an LFP cell that claims >6,000 cycles. Wow if that's true. One cycle a day would let a car go for 16 years on a battery. They also have a sodium-ion cell that's pretty similar in size and a bit heavier than a comparable LFP cell. It's 3.1 volts, making a 16 cell battery 49.6 volts, a lot closer to 48 than over 51 volts with LFP.
Despite my sounding enthusiastic, I'm still a big skeptic.
Pretty sure Outback goes high into 60V+, so 16S at 3.6v @ 100% charge each is well within it's range. Unless you are deliberately limiting it's resting voltage .
About Sodium, 48v is a legacy voltage from lead acid, even those are 51 to 52.5v float voltage. If the inverter capacitors voltage is rated at 68v its perfectly ok to run them up to 58v will last a decade or more before capacitor dries up. Higher the volts more efficiency and less heat. For Sodium ion, the current Inverter will trip the low voltage cut off, since they go as low as 1.5v, so very little useable capacity when used with currently available inverters.