Dahua 5442T-ZE at 70-100 ft - tuning limit or upgrade needed?

[m4gnum]

Hi, I’m running a Dahua IPC-5442T-ZE (from Empiretech), zoomed in to max, and mounted about 7–8 ft high. The quality is great but it struggles at far distance.
My goal is the best possible faces and license plates (mostly parked vehicles) at roughly 70–100 ft.
Day performance is decent but still borderline for plates and faces, and not recognizable at all at night. I played optimizing the camera a lot and the current settings seem to be best.
What makes it more difficult is that some times theres landscape light on, and other times there's no ambient light other than a nearby street lamp.

At this point I’m trying to figure out whether I’m essentially at the ceiling for what the 5442T-ZE can do at that distance, or if I can try different settings.
I am also thinking of getting a better camera, such as the 5442T-Z4E.

I also have a IPC-HFW2831T-ZS that's being used at other location. Would this be better than the 5442 at far distance?

What would you recommend?

 

[wittaj]

At 70 to 100 feet you need the Z12E.

Most her would use the ZE to 30ish feet and Z4E to 60ish feet

 

[m4gnum]

At 70 to 100 feet you need the Z12E.

Most her would use the ZE to 30ish feet and Z4E to 60ish feet

Thank you.
One thing I'm concerned about is that the zoom would crop the picture too much which might be useless for moving person. Is the zooming on Z12E smooth and fast enough to play with it when needed to zoom only for ID when there's motion but otherwise keep it at 12-20mm?

 

[Alaska Country]

T

Is the zooming on Z12E smooth and fast enough to play with it when needed to zoom only for ID when there's motion but otherwise keep it at 12-20mm?

The 5442 is a set the zoom once and leave it at that setting once the desired field of view is set. A PTZ however, is designed to follow, zoom in/out and focus without operator intervention.

Dahua does have a number of cameras that are designed for PTZ use. They are much more costly than the 5442 but work well when used in the correct application.

As others have said, one camera can not do it all. Consider one camera for an overview and another camera for ID.

 

[bigredfish]

At 70 to 100 feet you need the Z12E.

Most her would use the ZE to 30ish feet and Z4E to 60ish feet

^^^^
This.
The camera you have is made for 25-30ft detail/ID distances

Yes you will lose FOV when zoomed at higher values. Can't beat physics.

As @Alaska Country mentions, you might want to look into a PTZ.
I would caution though that you really need two cameras. The PTZ will reach but a fixed Z4 or Z12 will work in tandem with it to 1) direct it and 2) provide wider coverage when its looking the wrong way or zoomed in (same effect as above)

Biggest #1 mistake is trying to do too many things with too few cameras

 

[CamCrazy]

Hi, I’m running a Dahua IPC-5442T-ZE (from Empiretech), zoomed in to max, and mounted about 7–8 ft high. The quality is great but it struggles at far distance.
My goal is the best possible faces and license plates (mostly parked vehicles) at roughly 70–100 ft.
Day performance is decent but still borderline for plates and faces, and not recognizable at all at night. I played optimizing the camera a lot and the current settings seem to be best.
What makes it more difficult is that some times theres landscape light on, and other times there's no ambient light other than a nearby street lamp.

At this point I’m trying to figure out whether I’m essentially at the ceiling for what the 5442T-ZE can do at that distance, or if I can try different settings.
I am also thinking of getting a better camera, such as the 5442T-Z4E.

I also have a IPC-HFW2831T-ZS that's being used at other location. Would this be better than the 5442 at far distance?

What would you recommend?

I think that if the goal is day and night operation at a range of 70-100 ft then PTZ will likely be the real answer. Depending on ambient lighting, using a Z12E could be challenging, the benefit of the 5442 is in lower light, although limited zoom range. I am using a 5442 at max zoom which works for me with cars and people, distance around 40-50 feet, this is stretching it but I like the low light ability of that camera. I also have Z12E covering license plates at around 120 feet, at night this will only read plates, no other ID possible, regardless of vehicle or person, during the day it is fine for both.

Long and short is that if you want license plates at night then the Z12E would be the go to, but this would not get facial ID when setup for license plates! Even a PTZ will not really do both, unless light levels are high enough.

A snapshot of the scene would be helpful if that is possible but I sense you will be needing two cameras for this job, not just one.

 

[Ri22o]

You are trying to ask too much of a single camera.

One camera cannot do it all.

You cannot see everything and still see details. Getting good details does not allow you to see everything; it is a give and take.

This is why a good system will have cameras that complement each other. This is also why a PTZ is a complement to a good, already established system and should not be heavily relied on by itself.

When planning your system and layout start by focusing on choke points and set up fields of view to capture details and give the ability to ID. This means all this camera will be able to do/see is the very narrow scope of its job. You can then deploy a more general overview cam to give context to the details. This overview cam can support one or more of your choke point ID cams.

For instance, I have deployed two B54IR-Z4E cameras. Their only job is to see people walking down the path behind my house. This is what I see 99% of the time when I look at the feed.


However, this is what I see when someone walks down the path, 65' feet away.


I then have these cameras I can use to get a better idea/context of what they were doing and where they may have come from or gone to.



And this is at night.



Below are a couple links to some of my threads which you might find helpful. I have learned a lot since joining and try to pay it forward when possible.

This is my on-going "build" thread.

Looking for advice on my install locations.

After posting my thread on where/whether to install the 4K-X I realized I may need to adjust the locations of some of my cameras and with Andy's sale coming up I wanted to get some opinions so I can buy any new hardware I may need. A little about where I live: My street is lit primarily by...

ipcamtalk.com

This is one I put together with images from my journey showing the differences between focal lengths, install heights, changing fields of view, etc.

"I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything..." - This is why you need specific FOVs with purposeful focal lengths.

I am treating this as a living document and will update it with new captures, information, etc from time to time since the journey and knowledge gained never ends. Even though it was originally posted in May of 2023, it is still very much relevant. I have gained a lot of knowledge since I...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Ri22o]

I will also add these captures from my T54IR-ZE at full 12mm and 7ft install height.

18ft (85ft? to the license plate across the street)


25ft (85ft? to the license plate across the street)


40ft


40ft to the license plate


B54IR-Z12E at 142ft

 

[Flintstone61]

This camera (z4) is 4 & 1/2 pontoon boats away from the car. Yes it's the extreme end of a Z4's capability. But, everything depends exactly on your location, the lighting ( or lack thereof) your needs, etc.
Don't forget the Z4 as the in between solution. You may need 2 cams. The Z4 offers a slightly wider FOV over the Z12 while staying in License plate readability zones, because sensor size is different.
Here is the same spot in the street viewed by a Z12 and a Z4. Obviously the FOV is smaller. The Z12 is undergoing testing( not doing LPR)
You can see in pic #3 the z12 on a workmate, about 100 feet from that No parking sign which it can read easily even with snow and branches.