I am so tired of my HIK Vision NVR. Hanwha? Lorex? Problems with keeping the HIK cameras?

moocowman

n3wb
Oct 19, 2024
11
2
California, USA
I know brands like Lorex are amateur, maybe frowned upon here. But I just need a system that's reliable and easy to access. The HIK Vision NVR was horrible to set up, never worked 100%, a channel that won't record and settings that keep getting lost when it reboots. The last straw is I can't see video using HIK Connect on browsers except old school IE. IVMS takes too long to load and it's glitchy. It's frustrating that IVMS, HIK Connect web interface, direct camera interface and IVMS all seem foreign to each other as if they were all developed by different developers who don't talk to each other. The only thing that's been solid is the phone app.

Anyway, I'm thinking of keeping the HIK vision cameras to save my wallet, but replacing the NVR. What brands are more stable and better developed? Will I have any trouble using HIK cameras on another brand NVR?
 
If you want NVR with MODERN WORKING web panel working under all browsers and MODERN WORKING mobile app - there is only one way to go: Unifi Protect


Cameras have mediocre night performance (comparing to latest HIK ColorVU or Dahua WizColor).

But easy to use, web panel / mobile app & features (like AI detections and classification) are top notch.

ps. there is no desktop app - everything is available / works over web
 
For the best experience, it is best to match brands of NVR and cameras.

All ONVIF means is that the video feed will come thru. No guarantee on any AI or other features.

Sadly, the use of IE will be the same with any of these brands except for maybe high-end Axis and Unifi, and of course the consumer cloud-based cameras that will not be as good at night.

You can read more about the reason for IE in this post since we can't post images at the moment LOL.
 
So, the whole industry is just as crappy? I checked out a couple of videos on setting a Hanwha system and it does look pretty similar to HIK. It brought back nightmares. I thought Hanwha would be better. After all, they were Samsung. I guess the real killer here is ONIF probably wouldn't let me use the cameras' advanced functions. I'm not about to spend another $1500 on a system. It's the year 2025. Why are camera systems still 2005? I think I'm going to factory reset everything and start all over. Maybe it'll fix a few annoyances.
 
Read the post I linked on why it is like it is. Doesn't make it right, but we are not their target market.

Also keep in mind that Hikvision and Dahua make many of the other systems out there with a different label slapped on it so that is why many of the systems have a similar look/feel.
 
So, the whole industry is just as crappy? I checked out a couple of videos on setting a Hanwha system and it does look pretty similar to HIK. It brought back nightmares. I thought Hanwha would be better. After all, they were Samsung. I guess the real killer here is ONIF probably wouldn't let me use the cameras' advanced functions. I'm not about to spend another $1500 on a system. It's the year 2025. Why are camera systems still 2005? I think I'm going to factory reset everything and start all over. Maybe it'll fix a few annoyances.

All Chinese / Asian manufacturers are very similar. 20 years of history of adding features around and patching up bad decisions from the past.

Sometimes I feel like everyone uses the same developers/external companies. And that's why everyone has the same crappy architecture and problems.

Unifi have very modern platform written from scratch a few years ago - in modern web & mobile era...
 
Read the post I linked on why it is like it is. Doesn't make it right, but we are not their target market.

That we are NOT their market is big bullshit story copied for many years on this forum.

Everyone is not happy for platforms offered by both HIK & Dahua. Everyone hates them.
Small users, small businesses, bigger institutions and large enterprises.

Both HIK & Dahua offer good hardware products at good price.
Camera firmware is OK'eish.. platforms (NVR, mobile, web, desktop, cloud) are bad or very bad..

everything runs on 20 years code / platforms / architecture / API..
they try to patch things here or there - but in reality this need totally rewrite from scratch.
At all levels...

if someone use HIK & Dahua in big scale, usually they use external VMS from other companies - which hides problems..
 
One more thing: there are vendors which offers nice end-to-end solutions...

in the US there is Avigilon - which offers both camera & VMS with servers.. very integrated, very nice interface, lots of features.. but costs 3-5k $ per camera (including VMS/server channel costs & support)..
In Europe we have Bosch - which offers similar very well integrated solutions for similar prices...
There is Axis - nice cameras, usually even cheaper than avigilon/bosch.. they offer both NVR & VMS - but no one want to use it - only cameras with external VMS...

And there is Verkada - which offers very nice CLOUD solution with CLOUD web interface and no need for any NVR/VMS/server.. But you must pay subscription every year

at normal price levels - for end-users & SMBs - only company which I know, with nice UI/UX for both web & mobile interface is Ubiquiti with Unifi Protect...
 
The HIK Vision NVR was horrible to set up, never worked 100%, a channel that won't record and settings that keep getting lost when it reboots.

I have a Hikvision NVR with 9 Hikvision cameras and everything works reasonably well... What model is your NVR?
 
One more thing: there are vendors which offers nice end-to-end solutions...

in the US there is Avigilon - which offers both camera & VMS with servers.. very integrated, very nice interface, lots of features.. but costs 3-5k $ per camera (including VMS/server channel costs & support)..
In Europe we have Bosch - which offers similar very well integrated solutions for similar prices...
There is Axis - nice cameras, usually even cheaper than avigilon/bosch.. they offer both NVR & VMS - but no one want to use it - only cameras with external VMS...

And there is Verkada - which offers very nice CLOUD solution with CLOUD web interface and no need for any NVR/VMS/server.. But you must pay subscription every year

at normal price levels - for end-users & SMBs - only company which I know, with nice UI/UX for both web & mobile interface is Ubiquiti with Unifi Protect...
We had to install a couple Verkada POE++ 4lens 360 cameras. $4,000 a piece? No thanks against my puny wallet. Probably AOK for CEO wallet.
Though, I am thinking of getting my techs certified on their IP cameras & alarm system (similar to Dahua's Lync system of camera + alarm) because very few vendors are authorized & trained on them.
 
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That we are NOT their market is big bullshit story copied for many years on this forum.

Maybe it is different where you are at, but in the US this is the experiences we have seen (and the OP is in the US).

I can go to Best Buy and buy any electronic they sell and be able to talk and get service from the manufacturer. If I buy a Samsung phone, I can talk to Samsung customer support. I don't have to talk to Best Buy.

I can go to a used car lot and by any manufacturer vehicle and if the car is under warranty, I can go to that manufacturer dealer for warranty work or a recall. I don't have to go back to the used car lot.

I can buy a camera from Andy that comes in a Dahua box with a Dahua logo on the camera and a Dahua serial number and Dahua firmware and Dahua will not take my phone call and will not provide customer support and will tell me to go the vendor I purchased it from.

The same with buying a Dahua camera from B&H. I would have to go thru B&H and if I contacted Dahua they would tell me to talk to the vendor I purchased from.

That creates the perception that they don't want to deal with us. And perception can be reality.

In the US, an official Dahua camera can cost 2 to 5 times or more than what we can purchase them for from Andy because the official US distributors want you to go through their professional installers or want you to buy in quantity, so we pay a premium markup. Neither of which most of us here want to do. Maybe some pockets of the US folks can get a good deal from an authorized Dahua dealer in the US, but most of us don't. My neighbor works for one of those authorized installers and even with his employee discount, it is cheaper for him to buy cameras from Andy LOL.

Now some in other countries have stated they have been able to setup a trade account with Dahua to purchase directly from Dahua and get Dahua support. It doesn't work that way in the US. Many product lines in the US have manufacturer reps and territories and someone else cannot set up shop on the product line within another's territory and setting up a trade account would not be possible. If I were a Dahua rep and had a defined territory (and thus a monopoly in the area), why would I offer someone a trade account to allow them to go sell in another territory and risk losing my defined territory by Dahua. If the person in my territory wants Dahua cams, they can pay the same as everyone else. I have had friends in other industries that were manufacturer reps for lucrative product lines and defined territories and they would do whatever it took to keep that product line, including lawsuits against other reps for stepping past the territory line.

This is probably partly the reason why Andy had to rename his cameras....

Contrast that with consumer grade stuff sold at the big box stores or even buying off Amazon. You can call a Night Owl or Arlo or Reolink or Lorex or Amcrest or DLink or Google Nest or Ring or any consumer brand and speak to a company representative (now whether they can help you or not is another story), but they will not tell you to talk to Best Buy or Amazon where you purchased it...and several of these cost the same or more as Dahua or Hikvision...

We are just fortunate enough to be able to get our hands on these brands and a forum like this to help us.

So in the US, as long as people keep buying Dahua cameras and they call Dahua for support and Dahua tells them to contact the vendor they purchased from, that is implied that they are not the target customer for their product.

When Dahua shows up in Best Buy and a person can call Dahua for support, then it will be accepted that they are selling to the homeowner.

In the US, that is what Dahua had the Amcrest and Lorex lines for....
 
Maybe it is different where you are at, but in the US this is the experiences we have seen (and the OP is in the US).

I can go to Best Buy and buy any electronic they sell and be able to talk and get service from the manufacturer. If I buy a Samsung phone, I can talk to Samsung customer support. I don't have to talk to Best Buy.

I can go to a used car lot and by any manufacturer vehicle and if the car is under warranty, I can go to that manufacturer dealer for warranty work or a recall. I don't have to go back to the used car lot.

I can buy a camera from Andy that comes in a Dahua box with a Dahua logo on the camera and a Dahua serial number and Dahua firmware and Dahua will not take my phone call and will not provide customer support and will tell me to go the vendor I purchased it from.

The same with buying a Dahua camera from B&H. I would have to go thru B&H and if I contacted Dahua they would tell me to talk to the vendor I purchased from.

That creates the perception that they don't want to deal with us. And perception can be reality.

In the US, an official Dahua camera can cost 2 to 5 times or more than what we can purchase them for from Andy because the official US distributors want you to go through their professional installers or want you to buy in quantity, so we pay a premium markup. Neither of which most of us here want to do. Maybe some pockets of the US folks can get a good deal from an authorized Dahua dealer in the US, but most of us don't. My neighbor works for one of those authorized installers and even with his employee discount, it is cheaper for him to buy cameras from Andy LOL.

Now some in other countries have stated they have been able to setup a trade account with Dahua to purchase directly from Dahua and get Dahua support. It doesn't work that way in the US. Many product lines in the US have manufacturer reps and territories and someone else cannot set up shop on the product line within another's territory and setting up a trade account would not be possible. If I were a Dahua rep and had a defined territory (and thus a monopoly in the area), why would I offer someone a trade account to allow them to go sell in another territory and risk losing my defined territory by Dahua. If the person in my territory wants Dahua cams, they can pay the same as everyone else. I have had friends in other industries that were manufacturer reps for lucrative product lines and defined territories and they would do whatever it took to keep that product line, including lawsuits against other reps for stepping past the territory line.

This is probably partly the reason why Andy had to rename his cameras....

Contrast that with consumer grade stuff sold at the big box stores or even buying off Amazon. You can call a Night Owl or Arlo or Reolink or Lorex or Amcrest or DLink or Google Nest or Ring or any consumer brand and speak to a company representative (now whether they can help you or not is another story), but they will not tell you to talk to Best Buy or Amazon where you purchased it...and several of these cost the same or more as Dahua or Hikvision...

We are just fortunate enough to be able to get our hands on these brands and a forum like this to help us.

So in the US, as long as people keep buying Dahua cameras and they call Dahua for support and Dahua tells them to contact the vendor they purchased from, that is implied that they are not the target customer for their product.

When Dahua shows up in Best Buy and a person can call Dahua for support, then it will be accepted that they are selling to the homeowner.

In the US, that is what Dahua had the Amcrest and Lorex lines for....
My company was an authorized dealer for Toshiba business phone systems. Sold those things like crack. Thousands of customers in NV.
Just like Dahua, regular customers could never call directly to Toshiba. Only to us, who sold them the telephone system.
Home clients were never our target demographic. If a home person (or even a business person) purchased a Toshiba phone system from eBay or some 3rd party and expected/asked my company to come fix, we had the option to say no because as authorized dealers, we are only contractually obligated to take care of the client that bought directly from us.
Some may say that is stupid (Dahua & Toshiba authorized dealerships and their price tags) because my company had to "purchase" these phone systems from Toshiba (granted, at a discounted rate but yet at a base price) and add profit in them for reselling. Why add profit on top of the base price? We have paychecks, insurance, training, vehicle expenses that Toshiba (or Dahua) were not involved with.
 
Maybe it is different where you are at, but in the US this is the experiences we have seen (and the OP is in the US).

I can go to Best Buy and buy any electronic they sell and be able to talk and get service from the manufacturer. If I buy a Samsung phone, I can talk to Samsung customer support. I don't have to talk to Best Buy.

I can go to a used car lot and by any manufacturer vehicle and if the car is under warranty, I can go to that manufacturer dealer for warranty work or a recall. I don't have to go back to the used car lot.

I can buy a camera from Andy that comes in a Dahua box with a Dahua logo on the camera and a Dahua serial number and Dahua firmware and Dahua will not take my phone call and will not provide customer support and will tell me to go the vendor I purchased it from.

The same with buying a Dahua camera from B&H. I would have to go thru B&H and if I contacted Dahua they would tell me to talk to the vendor I purchased from.

That creates the perception that they don't want to deal with us. And perception can be reality.

In the US, an official Dahua camera can cost 2 to 5 times or more than what we can purchase them for from Andy because the official US distributors want you to go through their professional installers or want you to buy in quantity, so we pay a premium markup. Neither of which most of us here want to do. Maybe some pockets of the US folks can get a good deal from an authorized Dahua dealer in the US, but most of us don't. My neighbor works for one of those authorized installers and even with his employee discount, it is cheaper for him to buy cameras from Andy LOL.

Now some in other countries have stated they have been able to setup a trade account with Dahua to purchase directly from Dahua and get Dahua support. It doesn't work that way in the US. Many product lines in the US have manufacturer reps and territories and someone else cannot set up shop on the product line within another's territory and setting up a trade account would not be possible. If I were a Dahua rep and had a defined territory (and thus a monopoly in the area), why would I offer someone a trade account to allow them to go sell in another territory and risk losing my defined territory by Dahua. If the person in my territory wants Dahua cams, they can pay the same as everyone else. I have had friends in other industries that were manufacturer reps for lucrative product lines and defined territories and they would do whatever it took to keep that product line, including lawsuits against other reps for stepping past the territory line.

This is probably partly the reason why Andy had to rename his cameras....

Contrast that with consumer grade stuff sold at the big box stores or even buying off Amazon. You can call a Night Owl or Arlo or Reolink or Lorex or Amcrest or DLink or Google Nest or Ring or any consumer brand and speak to a company representative (now whether they can help you or not is another story), but they will not tell you to talk to Best Buy or Amazon where you purchased it...and several of these cost the same or more as Dahua or Hikvision...

We are just fortunate enough to be able to get our hands on these brands and a forum like this to help us.

So in the US, as long as people keep buying Dahua cameras and they call Dahua for support and Dahua tells them to contact the vendor they purchased from, that is implied that they are not the target customer for their product.

When Dahua shows up in Best Buy and a person can call Dahua for support, then it will be accepted that they are selling to the homeowner.

In the US, that is what Dahua had the Amcrest and Lorex lines for....


What does this have to do with a non-functioning/difficult-to-use NVR? Internet Explorer or plugin requirements? Slow desktop app loading times?

I'm writing that this is the result of continued patching of 20-year-old software platforms, which have nothing to do with today's standards for how products should work via the web or desktop/mobile applications.

And it has nothing to do with whether or not we are the target group for HIK or Dahua. Installers and large companies also have to deal with these terrible platforms.

And this has nothing to do with the HIK / Dahua sales model in individual countries.

It's more like laziness and lack of real competition at similar price points.
 
What does this have to do with a non-functioning/difficult-to-use NVR? Internet Explorer or plugin requirements? Slow desktop app loading times?

I'm writing that this is the result of continued patching of 20-year-old software platforms, which have nothing to do with today's standards for how products should work via the web or desktop/mobile applications.

And it has nothing to do with whether or not we are the target group for HIK or Dahua. Installers and large companies also have to deal with these terrible platforms.

And this has nothing to do with the HIK / Dahua sales model in individual countries.

It's more like laziness and lack of real competition at similar price points.

It is all interconnected. Part laziness, part no real competition for the quality they provide, and partly because the installers they do business with leave everything on default has resulted in them not needing to rewrite code. If their installers were complaining and leaving Dahua for other options, then they would get the wake up call to adapt. That simply hasn't happened.

At least here in the US, they haven't had a need to address this whole issue with IE and difficult to use NVRs because their intended market here is mainly businesses where they have enough light they can stay in default settings, so they don't have a need to login to the camera via browser and don't see all the issues we see. I would assume that is the same in other countries as well.

It is us homeowners that push these to the limits and actually change settings.

A large component of their business are with companies that simply use the NVR as a recording device and to live view display on a monitor.

My neighbor said his company installations of Dahua cams have always been well-lit businesses and the client doesn't want to pay for dialing in the cameras. All they cared about was live viewing by an employee/attendant of the business and the ability to play a video back when needed. He said they would get around a dozen calls per year from a homeowner wanting a quote and once they gave them a quote, they never heard from them again LOL. He has been with the company over 15 years and has never done an install in a residential home.

We have countless examples where something happens and an employee of the company simply uses their phone to take a video of the NVR monitor of an event LOL. They don't care to learn or take the time to figure out how to download a video, so they don't see all the issues we do.

If I were Dahua or Hikvision, why would I go to the expense of re-writing the code to more modern standards when the majority of my business is selling these devices to people that simply keep them on default and use it as live viewing and the occasional replay of an incident?

They prescribe to the don't fix what ain't broke mentality LOL.

Now with the whole NDAA issue, that may change their mindset and mentality and I suspect they will have to eventually rewrite the code to modern standards with a nice easy to use app and what not, but all we have seen today are gimmicky consumer grade camera models with no real effort on the behind the scenes operation of the device. It is like they are trying to break into the consumer market, but are going about it half @$$ed and a Ring or arlo will beat them all night long on simplicity of use.

Again, at least in the US, the mindset is if I buy a product and cannot get customer service from the manufacturer, then I am a fringe buyer that is not part of their core business. And I am fine with that for better quality at prices cheaper than consumer stuff and look to forums like this if I need help.

@Holbs - with your new business, how many installs are residential and how many of your installs pay you to dial in settings off of default?
 
Regardless of whether you believe the reason or not, we both agree on the fact is it is old code and the OP wanted to know if there were any other options out there.

I was simply pointing out that at the end of the day there are not that many manufacturers out there and to watch what they switch to as it may be more of the same under a different label. Dahua and Hikvision probably make more than the other manufacturers combined.

Many years ago IPVM made a little graphic showing some of the companies that sell Dahua or Hikvision OEM under their own label. This is just a partial sampling as the number of companies for each is in the hundreds, if not thousands and pointing out that changing to another system that is just a relabel will result in the same headaches he is trying to move away from.

And it was pointed out in this thread that there are options, but they are pricey.

At which point, most will live with the issues....


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Personally, I think that in three years, most of the enthusiasts here on the forum will switch to UniFi anyway. They release a new line/generation of cameras practically every year.

The latest G6 line switched entirely to 1/1.8 sensors, even in the simplest/cheapest models.

Now we just need to add appropriate AI-ISP video processing (like WizColor), hybrid LEDs, and a few more lens options. And refine the quality of the AI features/detection.
 
Personally, I think that in three years, most of the enthusiasts here on the forum will switch to UniFi anyway. They release a new line/generation of cameras practically every year.

The latest G6 line switched entirely to 1/1.8 sensors, even in the simplest/cheapest models.

Now we just need to add appropriate AI-ISP video processing (like WizColor), hybrid LEDs, and a few more lens options. And refine the quality of the AI features/detection.

Yeah, Dahua needs to move to the newer sensors and quit with the gimmicky stuff and put out cameras on good MP/sensor ratios or they will start to see people move away, especially if Unifi can catch up in the processing and more lens options to go along with a newer platform.

The question is how long do you think it will take Unifi to catch up and would using the latest Sony sensors allow them to close that gap faster.
 
Yeah, Dahua needs to move to the newer sensors and quit with the gimmicky stuff and put out cameras on good MP/sensor ratios or they will start to see people move away, especially if Unifi can catch up in the processing and more lens options to go along with a newer platform.

The question is how long do you think it will take Unifi to catch up and would using the latest Sony sensors allow them to close that gap faster.

I found this reddit thread:

looks like latest Unifi G6 platform is using Chinese sensor (OmniVision OSO8A10 - the same which are used in 8Mpx Dahua 5842) and Chinese SOC..

This goes some way to explaining how they managed to keep the MSRP price below $200 while maintaining the high margins that Ubiquiti normally has.

When they catch up - as I wrote I think it will happen in 3 years..
 
I think Unifi would switch to Sony sensors before Dahua and would that cut the 3 years in half?

it should..
but please remember that It's a matter of margin and profit. Sony sensors are quite expensive, and Sony has focused on developing sensors for phones—they have several large clients like Apple.

As you well know, for 95% of the CCTV market, average black and white IR image quality at night is "sufficient." Most people don't even realize that they can expect sharp full color and clear images at night with some street lighting, with details of faces and clothing.

And that's how 95% of cameras on the market are sold.

So big kudos for Ubiquiti that they migrated on all new models in G6 line to minimum 1/1.8".. and used good sensor (even if it Chinese).
 
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