There is a downside - as he mentioned the focus range is not as great due to the bokeh effect - one of the reasons why people stay away from the 8MP cams. May or may not be an issue depending on the field of view.
Comparing real pro cameras to home grade. More than resolution specs.
- Thread starter fastline12
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yes, more open F1.2 aperture in 5442H-ZHE and 5842H-ZHE gives You better night performance.
This model as I told you (and You see on pictures in the links above) is bigger (due better optics), more rugged and have dedicated included junction box, which I hate to mount (more complicated that the normal one).
The only downside of more open F1.2 aperture is little shorter range of distances with sharp focus.
At day this is not a problem, in day profile You simply close aperture (this model have full motorized control not only for zoom/focus but also for aperture) and You can even sharper image at longer distances that on normal models..
At night profile, You open aperture to the max limiting a little range of sharpness - but usually visibility at night is shorter so You can focus camera to shorter distances.
I have teens of those premium versions on different installations (and also 7442 models with the same optics) - and this shorter range of strong focus is not a problem.
Empire don't have this model on website.
You must order it directly from Andy by DM to @EMPIRETECANDY
You can use both Dahua and empire model symbols - Andy will understand.
@wittaj you repeat another time this incorrect statement (is very unfortunately formulated).
Bokeh effect is no different for 4 and 8Mpx of the same camera (like 54IR or 58IR).
Bokeh effect is problematic for VERY SPECIFIC MODEL of 8Mpx camera which is Color4K.
And this problem is not because it is 8Mpx, but because it have very big 1/1.2" sensor with Full open F1.0 aperture, which can't be closed (FullColor camera) and there is no motorized control for Focus (fixed lens).
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Ah, I thought he was only talking about the color cams with F1.0, but 1.2 seems pretty close. Steve mentioned the "more premium" variant so I am wondering if he means you have more aperture adjustability? I could see where playing with the settings based on actual site lighting conditions would be helpful.
But yes, I watched a pretty good tutorial to understand more on cameras and seems like a more open aperture can run on a faster shutter, thus less blur of moving objects. But as a side effect, the focused range is reduced. Is that close enough in understanding?
Or maybe the apertures are fixed on these? So you are stuck with what you get?
yes it's close...
but as I wrote - in Full color cams You don't have any motorized control on anything (zoom, focus, iris / aperture). So they are problematic (especially Color4K model due very big sensor).
on those 5442/5842 premium variants You have full motorized control over zoom / focus / iris & aperture - so You can change everything depending of the needs.
For day profile You simply close iris and have even better sharpness range that on normal models.
Yes.. more open aperture or bigger image sensor then focus range (sharp image from x distance to y distance) is shorter.
In motorized cams (like 5442) You can change focus (and on some models close aperture)..
on fixed lenses (like Color4K) You can't change anything..
Steve per my prev post, could you point me to the F1.2 5442 variant from Empire? All I have seen are the F1.8
AS I wrote twice Andy don't have this model on website.
And there is no Empire symbol for it.
You must order by DM to Andy.
And simply use Dahua model id - Andy will understand.
Link to Dahua website with those models You will find in my previous reply to You.
ps. there is some additional time to deliver by andy special models.. He must order those from Dahua...
This is the first time I have ever mentioned Bokeh effect as it relates to the 54IR and 58IR series (I normally only say it for the 8MP 4K-T) and I mentioned it specifically on the H line this time since he asked if there were any side effects because I thought you mentioned that the larger the opening aperture the more likelihood of this effect...oh wait you did here and here where you said "more open aperture creates problem with focus.. Bokeh effect is more prominent.." and "please remember that opening aperture to max, creates problem called Bokeh effect (Bokeh - Wikipedia) where object very near or very far are out of focus.."
So if I misunderstood you, I apologize as I do not have the model camera to compare it to, (although I have seen some cameras regardless of aperture and sensor size are not infinity focus) but to say I have repeated this statement incorrectly is a lie as every other mention I have made has been to the full color cameras and specifically the 4K-T....
OK, @wittaj...
simply don't use the simplification that 8Mpx cameras are bad, because they have a problem with focus.. only that Color4K have a problem with focus...
the camera resolution has no significance here..
Some readers can't known that You wrote about Color4K..
Thank you guys! I have reached out to Empire to see what we can work out. I am wanting the 5442 and the SDA PTZ.
But as I work on the cam layout, I did want to ask about the special care or limitations of PTZs. I don't want to wear them out. Because our facility is fenced off, there should be none, or very little traffic to monitor, especially during the day. However, during the night, I might like to employ a PTZ and take advantage of it's zoom ability to run some overnight scans well beyond our fence line. I don't really need it making any ultra fast or constant sweeps, just a slow, lazy patrol.
This one PTZ would be attached to a building, approx 25ft from our fence line, but that fence is 500ft long. I guess you guys have alarmed be a bit regarding how much moving they can do before problems occur, but I sort of want to make full use of the PTZ ability to monitor the place.
I will admit that covering this property with camera was getting exhausting but if the PTZ can do what I think they can, they could really be a game changer. Having spotting cams that give some redundancy and alert the PTZs is fantastic! I am hoping they can zoom right in and do what we need.
But as I work on the cam layout, I did want to ask about the special care or limitations of PTZs. I don't want to wear them out. Because our facility is fenced off, there should be none, or very little traffic to monitor, especially during the day. However, during the night, I might like to employ a PTZ and take advantage of it's zoom ability to run some overnight scans well beyond our fence line. I don't really need it making any ultra fast or constant sweeps, just a slow, lazy patrol.
This one PTZ would be attached to a building, approx 25ft from our fence line, but that fence is 500ft long. I guess you guys have alarmed be a bit regarding how much moving they can do before problems occur, but I sort of want to make full use of the PTZ ability to monitor the place.
I will admit that covering this property with camera was getting exhausting but if the PTZ can do what I think they can, they could really be a game changer. Having spotting cams that give some redundancy and alert the PTZs is fantastic! I am hoping they can zoom right in and do what we need.
A slow lazy patrol will not work. That only works in the movies.
Disregarding the wearing it out faster, it cannot detect while it is in motion during a patrol sequence.
You need to set up presets with how/what to do when motion is detected when the camera is not moving and is on a fixed field of view.
So you would have to have it sit at preset for a period of time. Say what 10 seconds.
Then after 7 seconds, tell it to go to a different preset. It then takes a few seconds to settle and pull up the IVS before it can detect.
Then repeat cycle on patrol. Rarely will it capture what you want.
So when it is moving between presets, it will not be detecting motion.
And then that doesn't capture someone coming from the left when the camera is pointing to the right.
And as I have said, people have worn them out prematurely having them on constant patrol.
Spotter cams is a much better "fool proof" way to use a PTZ effectively. It only moves when another camera tells it to.
It still won't be perfect and will miss stuff, but far less than having it patrol around to presets unnecessarily.
Disregarding the wearing it out faster, it cannot detect while it is in motion during a patrol sequence.
You need to set up presets with how/what to do when motion is detected when the camera is not moving and is on a fixed field of view.
So you would have to have it sit at preset for a period of time. Say what 10 seconds.
Then after 7 seconds, tell it to go to a different preset. It then takes a few seconds to settle and pull up the IVS before it can detect.
Then repeat cycle on patrol. Rarely will it capture what you want.
So when it is moving between presets, it will not be detecting motion.
And then that doesn't capture someone coming from the left when the camera is pointing to the right.
And as I have said, people have worn them out prematurely having them on constant patrol.
Spotter cams is a much better "fool proof" way to use a PTZ effectively. It only moves when another camera tells it to.
It still won't be perfect and will miss stuff, but far less than having it patrol around to presets unnecessarily.
They have programmed it into the camera as they have determined that after X number of cycles, the likelihood of catastrophic failure exists. Kinda like how a timing belt for a car is scheduled to be replaced at X thousand miles, well same philosophy. You can keep running the car but the risk of failure exists.
Somewhere on here I thought someone said it is 500,000 cycles (and could be PTZ specific as to the number), but someone that got the warning had it on auto-patrol every 15 seconds (so 5,760 cycles per day) and got the warning at 439 days, or 2,528,640 cycles. Another got the warning after maybe 6 million cycles.
Here is one of the threads and you can read the back and forth and discussions with vendors.
Post in thread 'Review - Dahua SD49225XA-HNR 2MP 25x Starlight + IR PTZ AI Camera with Deep IVS & SMD Plus' Review - Dahua SD49225XA-HNR 2MP 25x Starlight + IR PTZ AI Camera with Deep IVS & SMD Plus
Thanks, however if there is a counter I'd like to know where it is and make it visible so we can all keep an eye on it.. I'd also like to know Dahua's position on motors wearing out + if it's an issue etc (their all round spiel on it really)
Unfortunately we haven't seen that counter available or an official number of cycles on newer PTZs (but an old PTZ used to). And based on chatter from a few years ago in that thread, I doubt Dahua will publicly state anything. Maybe they will surprise us and provide it, but when folks last tried to get official statements they didn't get one.
It does seem a bit ambiguous that is is not clear what is counted as a "cycle", or why a camera would then inhibit certain functionality. I could see where a warning could appear, letting an owner know the are at a cyclic limit, but consider it to be where you buy a car where there is no odometer, and no OEM data of how many miles a car will last, then one day it just pops up and says "she's at the limit Bobby, we are now reducing to 50HP for the rest of life, enjoy"....
While I am not looking to tap the rev limiter insane, needless motion cycles, I will say I'd like to be able to take advantage of the unique ability of a PTZ and not leave horsepower on the table.
Here:
There are a few Z4 models also but FStop is higher
Here is what the "manual" says about it (with no number provided):
And here is what pops up on some cameras when it happens:
My understanding from folks that had that pop up is that it was autotracking that was disabled, but they could manually move the PTZ.
Someone here claims they hacked the firmware to remove the disabling of the PTZ, but despite repeated attempts asking to share or show how to do it, they refused to do so.
And here is what pops up on some cameras when it happens:
My understanding from folks that had that pop up is that it was autotracking that was disabled, but they could manually move the PTZ.
Someone here claims they hacked the firmware to remove the disabling of the PTZ, but despite repeated attempts asking to share or show how to do it, they refused to do so.
Steve did put up a link in a prev post but thank you!Here:
I think that You want to much from normal PTZ... they can monitor bigger areas, but not that big...
for patrolling using PTZ long distances there is only one solution: thermal PTZ...
with limitations about narrow horizontal FoV on most models, about which I wrote here in previous posts...
for smaller budget: 500ft is 152 meters..
if this is long straight line, You can use two triple sight cameras - one on each end of that fence (on same poles)...
Dahua IPC Perimeter Protection Camera - Dahua International
Dahua IPC Perimeter Protection Camera
this is very new model, there is no big reviews for it...
If I calculate correctly one triple sight camera have DORI which is equivalent to a single wide 128Mpx camera...
of course this works only for middle of the screen...
MFW5241T2-E3-ASE
it protects 100m long road/path using 3 cameras sensors/lenses with 3 different zoom levels..
it have 3 fixed lenses: 3.6mm, 12mm and 25mm..
2Mpx each (1/2.8")/speaker/mic/8 LEDs/AI on each channel/motorized vertical angle (vertical mini PTZ)..
part of WizMind 5 line..
there is no spec on Dahua website for now...
Facebook video from Polish Dahua channel with demonstration (sorry in Polish)...
View attachment MFW5241T2.mp4
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