Do you have to use a router for ip cams or will a managed switch work?

[Chust]

A switch like this. http://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-ProSA...-Port+Gigabit+Ethernet+Desktop+Switch+managed

I have several ip cams on a dedicated pc. Right now it's hooked up to a cheap 10/100 router. I don't have the internet hooked up to it and it doesn't have wi-fi. I don't want it connected to wi-fi or internet.

I need to upgrade it to gigabit. Am I right, will a managed switch work?

 

[Zxel]

First of all the cameras most likely are 10/100, so even if you connect them to a Gigabyte router/switch you will still only get 100mbps. If you don't want to connect the cameras to the internet you do not have to use a router (routers are used for internet connectivity - not technically true, but true enough for most people).

A normal setup (ideally) would be to use POE cameras with a 10/100 POE switch with a gigabyte uplink to your computer/router.

You will gain in latency and total bandwidth if you upgrade to a gigabyte switch (doesn't have to be managed - a "dumb" one is fine). The idea here being your computer should have a gigabyte NIC in it connected to the switch, which in turn will give each port connected to a camera the full 100mbps. As inexpensive as gigabyte switches/routers are today there is really very few reasons to run the backbone of your network at 10/100 speeds.

 

[Chust]

gigabyte NIC - So the network adapter on the motherboard isn't good enough, it's 10/100/1000.


So I take it I have to buy a gigabyte NIC for this to work directly from computer to switch?

 

[Zxel]

It is still a NIC even if it is embeded in your motherboard - no difference, so YES it will do fine.

 

[Chust]

I have tried to connect a unmanaged switch to the motherboard directly and then view a cam in blue iris and ie with know success. Am I missing something? Yep, I need some help.

 

[bp2008]

You will have to assign static IP addresses to everything, starting with the network interface in the computer.

 

[Zxel]

The problem is most likely your setup for the motherboard NIC in Windows. You need to manually set the network settings of your motherboard NIC, and you will need to think out the topology you will be using carefully and ahead of time (because you will have to configure every network device/camera manually without a router).

Since I'm assuming you have no internet connectivity your computer will have to use your computer as the gateway and DNS server in the setup.

Here is a webpaage that explains it in more detail: http://www.stardot-tech.com/kb/index.php?View=entry&EntryID=134. I just did a google search on "connect network camera directly to computer", there are many more examples - I just picked the first.

P.S. Of course you could avoid all this hassle by just getting an inexpensive gigabyte router (just don't connect it to the internet), a gigabyte router is about the same cost as a switch anyway. In other words the same setup you have just replace the 10/100 router with a gigabyte one.

 

[Chust]

I agree! I have a cheap linksys ea3500 and turned the wi-fi off. With wifi off in settings is there any possible way for someone to get into it or view my cameras?

 

[Zxel]

Without an internet connection to the router thru the WAN port or the WIfi turned on and configured the only way would be if someone connected a physical line to your setup.

To be completely transparent this isn't james bond security, there are ways into your system no matter how you set it up, there is equipment that can read everything going on in your network/computer without a connection - and they can do it from quite some distance, most of this equipment is very expensive and/or classified. Nothing to be concerned about (unless you are a goverment agency or someone they want, and if so you shouldn't be here talking about it).

 

[Chust]

LOL! Yah, I know they have equipment like that. I just want to make sure that nobody can see my house or when I come and go thru my cameras.

 

[Chust]

I do believe I found what I been searching for. Great price and lots of features. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BGIXO58...=UTF8&colid=82M1VLVGNGZ5&coliid=IT3D09AN9ZKDW

I just can't trust a device that has wi-fi for my home security.

 

[Zxel]

That is an excellent router, very sophisticated. This is close to the same model I currently use, it has features only routers costing thousands of dollars have. Do note that it is not a home use friendly device, it wont have that "interface for dummies", it is far more complicated and most of its features you wont even recognize much less use.

That being said the interface it does have is considered nice (easy) for a device of its class. This router can do things the normal home router could never do. There is very little you can't do with a router of this class.

I understand your intrepidation on WiFi, since every protocol it uses has been hacked, although that isn't as easy as it sounds if you are using the latest standards.

Hope you enjoy it as much as I do mine.

 

[bp2008]

You really don't need a router if you just set up static IP addresses to everything, like I said. Its better that way anyhow since you don't want the IP addresses to change.

 

[Zxel]

You really don't need a router if you just set up static IP addresses to everything, like I said. Its better that way anyhow since you don't want the IP addresses to change.

True, but it isn't just as simple as setting the devices to static IP's, what about the Gateway? or the DNS servers? NTP services? Yes all this is easy if you know what to put where but a router will handle all that for you, and this router has a sophisticated firewall that blows away the ones in home routers. The router is worth it just for the firewall and logging services alone.

The router is a better choice going forward, it can handle an internet (or other type of routing) connection a switch cannot. At routerboards price point it is an excellent investment in your network as a whole. The only drawback (if you can call it that) is it has a steeper learning curve than a home router, however, I don't think it is too high for anyone with the interest - a great network learning tool.

 

[bp2008]

You don't need a gateway or dns service for cameras that don't need to reach out to the internet, and if NTP is needed you can use one of the apps listed here to have the Blue Iris pc serve NTP:

http://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php?1308-Network-Time-Protocol-(NTP)

 

[Zxel]

No disagreement here, I already pointed out how to do it with a switch alone in post #7 above. The point is you do have to put in settings for those things regardless if you're using them or not. For the computer expert this is trivial, however, it is not something normal users are familiar with. As stated above the firewall and logging abilities of the router mentioned (remember it is a router with a switch built in) is worth the cost alone.

Then again this is my opinion, Chust is the one who must decide how to procede.

 

[Razer]

MicroTik router boards are amazing, but I would think it is massive overkill for a person that does not know networking. Look at the posts around with people having trouble with "easy" routers, these router boards will make some peoples head explode. I too think it is easy, but I have found that to most people networking is magical wizardry so I tend to recommend the easiest solution.

Don't over think this, if a routers wireless is off, then it is off. Simple. There is no way into the network if wifi is disabled and there is no WAN connection for internet. Run wireless analyzers if you need proof, I've never once seen a radio on a router be on if it was set to off. Some even have a hard switch to turn off wifi. If you are really worried then remove the antennas, surely you will see people within 20 feet of your router? Again, sure, if you live next to the NSA or the head of Anonymous or something sure you are hackable, but who cares about you and your cameras? Not exactly a high value hacking target I expect.

I run 8 3mp IP cameras on 100mb switches with no issues, what are you running into that requires a gigabit switch if I may ask? I have switched to gigabit switches completely here recently, but just because I have found a good option, I've not ran into performance issues with my cameras yet anyway. Getting ready to have a 40-50 camera system on a single desktop here soon (next year at some point hopefully) so I'm excited to see how it works once it is up and running!

 

[bp2008]

I'm sure the firewall and logging is fantastic -- I once picked up one of MikroTik's cheapest ($40 or so), and I have never seen a router with so many settings before. The best part is that it is presented in a GUI so you don't have to use console commands. Even so, that router is sitting in a drawer because I couldn't figure it out. I can only imagine what it must be like for someone who hasn't mastered basic networking yet.

Thing is, if you are going to use DHCP for addressing on a camera network, it had better be with DHCP reservations because you really don't want the IP addresses of your cameras changing. Admittedly that is easier to set up and maintain than assigning static address in each camera individually.

 

[Zxel]

MicroTik router boards are amazing, but I would think it is massive overkill for a person that does not know networking. Look at the posts around with people having trouble with "easy" routers, these router boards will make some peoples head explode. I too think it is easy, but I have found that to most people networking is magical wizardry so I tend to recommend the easiest solution.

Normally a routerboard would not be recommended for home use, they are mostly used in commercial and long haul network setups, however, I get the feeling that Chust may have an interest in further networking knowledge since the routerboard was never mentioned in this thread (chust found it), and it will certainly do that.

Don't over think this, if a routers wireless is off, then it is off. Simple. There is no way into the network if wifi is disabled and there is no WAN connection for internet. Run wireless analyzers if you need proof, I've never once seen a radio on a router be on if it was set to off. Some even have a hard switch to turn off wifi. If you are really worried then remove the antennas, surely you will see people within 20 feet of your router? Again, sure, if you live next to the NSA or the head of Anonymous or something sure you are hackable, but who cares about you and your cameras? Not exactly a high value hacking target I expect.

Nothing to disagree with here, now all you have to do is convince Chust. eaceful:

I run 8 3mp IP cameras on 100mb switches with no issues, what are you running into that requires a gigabit switch if I may ask? I have switched to gigabit switches completely here recently, but just because I have found a good option, I've not ran into performance issues with my cameras yet anyway. Getting ready to have a 40-50 camera system on a single desktop here soon (next year at some point hopefully) so I'm excited to see how it works once it is up and running!

Using gigabyte for your network "backbone" will improve latency and bandwidth, and as inexpensive as gigabyte hardware is now it makes little sense to invest in 10/100 hardware. Personally I use 10/100 POE switches with at least one gigabyte uplink port for cameras, this gives each camera full access to the entire 100mbps it is connected to with no contention (because the switches fabric is for gigabyte speeds). The importance of gigabyte speeds isn't for the cameras per se, it is for your networking backbone, a simple large file copy (like a movie) from one computer to another on a 100mbps backbone will saturate it easily and wipe out your camera connectivity (unless you are going to get into more sophisticated bandwidth management techniques).

To be fair, as you stated Chust already has everything needed to do it now, but doesn't seem satisfied - so I'm just going with that.

 

[Zxel]

I'm sure the firewall and logging is fantastic -- I once picked up one of MikroTik's cheapest ($40 or so), and I have never seen a router with so many settings before. The best part is that it is presented in a GUI so you don't have to use console commands. Even so, that router is sitting in a drawer because I couldn't figure it out. I can only imagine what it must be like for someone who hasn't mastered basic networking yet.

Agreed, they are not made for home use by the public, however, as you mention the interface is actually considered "friendly" (although it is geared towards engineers) for commercial equipment. You may want to give your routerboard another shot, there is a great deal more help out there (google is your friend) for routerboards than in the past, and you will learn a great deal about networking if you do so. My recommendation is to just use the wizard (this may not have been in the firmware you used earlier - make sure to get the latest) and stick with the basics - at first - if you get frustrated on not mastering something immediately this is not for you, it will be a learning experience (I would argue a good one - probably better than you'd find at your local college).

Thing is, if you are going to use DHCP for addressing on a camera network, it had better be with DHCP reservations because you really don't want the IP addresses of your cameras changing. Admittedly that is easier to set up and maintain than assigning static address in each camera individually.

Yuppers, reserved addresses are the way to go if you use DHCP. The normal recomendation though is to use static IP's on the cameras AND set reserved addresses in DHCP for them too (because cameras can lose there static IP settings). Doing both gives you a backup to your static IP setting.