Small brick house: WiFi v POE? Bandwidth, license plate recognition?

[LiLi83]

Planning my 1st home surveillance system. I live alone in 650 sq ft brick house (not incl basement) on a moderately high traffic corner. See photo Dropbox - Screenshot 2017-09-20 14.03.44.png

I have some idea about how I want to go about this, but I'm super amateur tech-wise + a tight budget = need advice to get it right on the 1st purchase. My 2 top priorities are as follows:

1. I want to monitor my car parked in the street alongside my house.

• Recently had car broken into; neighbor recently had their parked car totaled by someone who just took off.
• I only need to record when I am at home and when I decide to ride my bike into work which is pretty random according to the weather, so it would be nice if I could remotely adjust the recording schedule if possible? Otherwise I only really need to record a day's worth at a time max.

2. I want to get motion alerts to activity on my property.

• Mostly concerned that someone should try to come up the back steps to my yard and sneak in the back. Not as worried about the front.
• I'd like to monitor my yard loving, fence jumping, hole digging dog when I'm inside.

My game plan thus far:

• Splurge on one really good 4MP camera to record the car and one cheaper one to monitor the yard.
• Mount the good camera on the side of the back porch roof (see red triangle) which could put the camera about 50-100ft from the clearest license plate shot, considering the angle. Set up motion alerts for just the steps area.
• Mount the cheaper camera to back wall of house.
• Plug cameras in to the covered outlets on my porch. Record over WiFi rather than having to run a POE cord into the side of the house (i.e. through brick).
  
• Record to a Windows 8 desktop PC in my bedroom that is only ever used a few hours a day to watch movies/stream content when I am falling asleep. It has no other jobs, storage demands, etc, but I have external hard drives that can be hooked up to the PC if necessary.

My main concerns are:

• Can any camera ensure a good clear shot of a license plate at that distance? The high res 4MP is mainly necessary for potential evidence capture. A cheaper 1080p camera may otherwise do just as well if that's not likely anyway.
• The wifi on the back porch isn't so hot. I can probably improve the signal by relocating gateway, but still dealing with brick no matter what.
• Will the continuous recording of such hi res video affect bandwidth? I stream 99% of what I watch in my living room over wifi. Like most people I also perform other wifi-reliant activities while watching TV. It's just me in the house, but the video will be recording primarily when I am home so what should I anticipate as far as signal quality?
• If I went with a POE camera it would stabilize the signal for sure but would it prevent any potential issues when I'm streaming content via wifi? In other words, is that an argument for going with POE over Wifi?

Am I missing anything significant? Any and all advice welcome! Many thanks for your time and attention!

 

[TonyR]

Could you run outdoor rated, shielded CAT-5e horizontally along the uttermost part of the brick , attaching it to the facia board below the shake roof? Perhaps with a 16' or 20' extension ladder? That way you could avoid Wi-Fi (highly suggested) and also use POE cams (I'll let others in the forum provide some great suggestions on a suitable Dahua of optimum specs for your needs).

It's difficult to tell from the photo of your house but I think once the best location for the cams is chosen you will be at the extreme sides of the brick and could actually place the vertical run of the CAT-5e around the side of the house as it makes it way up to the facia board to make its horizontal run, making it less visible. This would allow you to mount the cams at the correct height, as you don't want the tops of people's heads or roofs of vehicles, you prefer faces and license plates. Again, others on this forum will have great info on mounting height and camera specs that will provide the best results for you.

Regarding attaching the CAT-5e to the wood facia board, I suggest the Steren Grip Clip #200-963BK . I have actually used these in brick mortar by drilling the mortar (not the brick) with a 1/4" masonry bit, tapping in the 1/4" plastic expanding anchor, removing the screw that is in the mounting clip and instead using the screw that fits the masonry expanding anchor! Kits at the hardware store have the plastic anchors, screws and a masonry bit included, just make sure the cable clip screw fits the anchors before you drill the holes. You should not have many to install in the brick anyway. I'd install the clips about every 24" to 30" vertically or every 18" to 24" horizontally. If you have not used these before, you pull the cable tight to remove slack or droops and tighten clip before you release your pull. You'll get the hang of it.

Blue Iris will provide the best value and options to suit your needs and it's very likely that the Windows 8 desktop PC will suffice for only 2 cameras. If you expand in the future as needs increase (and budget allows) you may have to get a more powerful PC and transfer the Blue Iris license or purchase an NVR that will work with your cams. But to start I'd try your PC, Blue Iris 4 and the 2 cams, wired and with POE. That will get you some functional surveillance now and you can do more later.

I commend you for tackling this DIY project and asking for advice first....Good luck!

 

[mat200]

Welcome Lili83,

I like the idea of using surface mounted 1/2" EMT conduit on a brick wall with junction boxes for the camera - you can paint the conduit and junction boxes if you like to better match the wall.

Also ask yourself which is a greater threat period of time for you:
Daylight or Low light / Night time - as it will help determine which type of camera you may want.

It's easy to get swamped with information here, so I wanted to share some notes with you

Please check out @giomania 's notes:
Dahua Starlight Varifocal Turret (IPC-HDW5231R-Z)

I have also made which are a summary of a lot of the reading I've been doing here,:
Looking for some advice and direction!

Have fun joining us here.

 

[LiLi83]

Thank you both so much for taking time out of your lives to help and encourage a total stranger. Gratuitous kindness in this world cannot be overrated IMO.

TonyR: I was hoping the Windows 8 PC was worth a go, and I have noticed how popular Blue Iris is so thank you! It really helps to get confirmation from someone in the know esp when it's specific to one's own situation! Thank you also for the thought you put into imagining the logistics for mounting the camera and it's wiring.

mat200: I had never heard of starlight before, and I'm kinda blown away right now looking at sample videos. Seeing clearly at night is in fact a big priority for me, but I did not know it could be that clear - that's pretty game-changing right there. I have a lot to learn, and the notes are extremely helpful.

If the informed wisdom is strongly in favor of POE/hard wiring over wifi then I will direct my focus in that direction. But my aversion to drilling into brick is such that my instinct is to get creative in completely exhausting the possibility of alternatives.

For instance, there are 2 double hung windows on the back of the house. If I were to place the gateway by the one back window facing the porch and nearest the street could a Wifi connection work well enough? There would only be some glass and less than 5 ft separating it from where I plan to place the cameras. Or am I missing something - maybe distance is not the only issue?

If the answer is no and POE is still the only smart way to go, perhaps it would be best to run the cable under the porch roof and drill it into the back of the house. The porch has recently been screened in, further protecting the cabling from the elements. Would that remove the need for junction boxes and other weatherproofing? Could I maybe even drill into the casing around the jammed old wooden storm window that I can't open anyway and intend to replace someday and feed it in that way? That probably sounds stupid, but I have just had such a rough time of drilling into brick, even with a hammer drill and masonry bit... If I have to call my construction-savvy big brother over, so be it, but I will go to great lengths to find a way to do it myself.

One other thought that may sound stupid: how much do I really need to worry about enhancing network security when adding a camera? If the camera is hacked, does it threaten the security of everything that uses my home network? Or is it just a matter of someone being able to see what my camera is filming (in my case: boring street corner, NBD). But, if the former, I have been meaning to look into getting a VPN, would that be a good solution?

Thanks again, your help is deeply appreciated.

 

[mat200]

... If I have to call my construction-savvy big brother over, so be it, but I will go to great lengths to find a way to do it myself.

One other thought that may sound stupid: how much do I really need to worry about enhancing network security when adding a camera? If the camera is hacked, does it threaten the security of everything that uses my home network? Or is it just a matter of someone being able to see what my camera is filming (in my case: boring street corner, NBD). But, if the former, I have been meaning to look into getting a VPN, would that be a good solution?

Thanks again, your help is deeply appreciated.

Hi Lili,

Happy to help out.

1) Camera locations / installation:

Suggest drilling not through the brick, but through the mortar joints with a nice cement bit. The idea is to reduce drilling directly into any brick.

If you use bulk cat5e cable the holes will be smaller - and you can run at least 4 lines through a 1/2" EMT tube ( I know as I just did this

Another option is to run the wiring inside and just drill a hole for the wire through the mortar joint where you place the junction box and camera.

Right now I would suggest picking up a Dahua Varifocal Starlight Camera, junction box, and a AC/DC adapter along with a micro-SD card and start testing for possible installation locations. Depending on the results you may find better ways to run the cable to that location.

2) Threat:

Cameras can be hijacked and used to attack banks, share illegal files, infect other internet connected devices with virii, attempt to hijack your internet banking sessions, and numerous other not very nice things.

Think about it this way.. would you want your garage used as a meth lab? Sort of like that...

Best to secure them as well as you can or keep them separate.

 

[mat200]

Suggest these points as camera location options to test for.

 

[looney2ns]

Welcome Lili,

Capturing license plates is an art. You must dedicate a cam just to that purpose to be successful.
Please read this thread: LPR

For Id'ing faces, don't mount cams more than 8ft high. Wide angle lens such as 2.8mm is not very good at Iding.

You want to know who did it, not just what happened.

WifI is just bad for cams, period. Using wifi, you are making certain Murphy's Law will go into effect. Use wire.

Get familiar with this: IPVM Camera Calculator V3 keep PPF>100, see tutorial on right side of page.

Dahua 2MP Starlight Lineup

The cam to beat: Dahua Starlight Varifocal Turret (IPC-HDW5231R-Z)

Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris | IP Cam Talk

If budget is really tight, Dahua cams have SD memory slots, you can record to the SD cards, then retrieve the records via the web interface for that cam, as well as view live. A 128gb card will hold approx 3 days.

Do you have any street lights nearby?

The installing part isn't really hard, it just takes planning and a little time.

 

[LiLi83]

Right now I would suggest picking up a Dahua Varifocal Starlight Camera, junction box, and a AC/DC adapter along with a micro-SD card and start testing for possible installation locations. Depending on the results you may find better ways to run the cable to that location.

I think I will take your advice. Thanks for the suggested camera location pts too!

Think about it this way.. would you want your garage used as a meth lab? Sort of like that...

Who have you been talking to? What I do in my garage is none of your business

 

[LiLi83]

Get familiar with this: IPVM Camera Calculator V3 keep PPF>100, see tutorial on right side of page.

That's incredible (and kinda fun). So much about this reply has been so informative...

If budget is really tight, Dahua cams have SD memory slots, you can record to the SD cards, then retrieve the records via the web interface for that cam, as well as view live. A 128gb card will hold approx 3 days.

I love that idea. Great to know this is an alternative.

Do you have any street lights nearby?

Yes thankfully it's a pretty well lit area... there's one on the corner just out of frame and one behind the truck in the lower right hand corner of this shot. Does that make a big difference in the specs of the camera I need do you think?

 

[mat200]

..
Yes thankfully it's a pretty well lit area... there's one on the corner just out of frame and one behind the truck in the lower right hand corner of this shot. Does that make a big difference in the specs of the camera I need do you think?

Hi Lili,

If there is enough light you can run a starlight in color mode during the night - which is very nice.
( many other cameras may have to go to IR mode when the light conditions start to get darker )

 

[looney2ns]

Lili,

The street light means you will get much better night vision with the starlight cams, depending on how well lit, you "might" be able to leave the cam in color mode, even at night. Which is desirable. The starlight cams are hard to beat no matter the lighting.

Drilling into the casing in your old window is certainly an option. The aesthetics aspect is all up to your taste.

As Mat said, drilling through mortar, is much more preferred than through the brick, much easier. Piece of cake with a hammer drill.

Test rig for test cam, 5gal bucket, 8ft 2x4, rocks or bricks.

Leave in postion for 24hrs to get a good feel.

 

[TonyR]

LiLi 83, as stated by me back on 9/22 "....I have actually used these in brick mortar by drilling the mortar (not the brick) with a 1/4" masonry bit, tapping in the 1/4" plastic expanding anchor, removing the screw that is in the mounting clip and instead using the screw that fits the masonry expanding anchor!"

I was trying to point out to NOT drill the brick and that drilling the mortar for an anchor or entrance is actually pretty easy when you have the right tools and hardware. For an anchor you don't need an impact hammer, just the masonry bit that is sold with or selected to fit your desired expanding anchor.

 

[LiLi83]

You did make that a point TonyR, and thank you for clarifying, but I'm telling you, me and masonry drilling are never gonna be friends. Believe me, I tried everything: in the brick, in the mortar, the concrete too; anchors with screws, tapcon screws, made no difference. Whether it was installing flag brackets or putting up Xmas lights, I manage to suck at all of it. Eventually got the hammer drill, some success with that but still came out kinda crap. You should see all the holes I put in my poor house. If it involves drilling anything but wood or drywall, it means sweat and frustration, maybe some tears, and a big glass of whiskey afterward for me, every time. As much as I love whiskey, I just cringe when I think of breaking out the masonry bits.

I still appreciate your advice though, you are clearly a person who knows what they're doing... and I will be sure to refer back to it when I'm forcing my brother to do all this shit for me...

 

[TonyR]

You did make that a point TonyR, and thank you for clarifying, but I'm telling you, me and masonry drilling are never gonna be friends. Believe me, I tried everything: in the brick, in the mortar, the concrete too; anchors with screws, tapcon screws, made no difference. Whether it was installing flag brackets or putting up Xmas lights, I manage to suck at all of it. Eventually got the hammer drill, some success with that but still came out kinda crap. You should see all the holes I put in my poor house. If it involves drilling anything but wood or drywall, it means sweat and frustration, maybe some tears, and a big glass of whiskey afterward for me, every time. As much as I love whiskey, I just cringe when I think of breaking out the masonry bits.

I still appreciate your advice though, you are clearly a person who knows what they're doing... and I will be sure to refer back to it when I'm forcing my brother to do all this shit for me...

1) Like Clint Eastwood said in 'Magnum Force', "A man's got to know his limitations", I congratulate you for acknowledging that can apply to women as well. Some of us guys, including yours truly, don't know when we're making it worse (until it's too late) or that we suck at whatever the chore may be.

2) That's what brothers are for!

 

[tangent]

For masonry mounting you really need junction box that's designed to fit your particular camera (dahua and hikvision each make them). It will stick out a bit more, but you don't have to make a giant hole through the brick/mortar and give you the option of running conduit up to the soffit/attic.