Replace several NVRs with one NVR?

[Jimmyjames]

Hi guys,

I work full time with a manufacturing company that currently has a very wonky camera system. We have a total of 60 Hikvision ip cams. The indoor cams are the DS-2CD2347G2-LU turret style models. The outdoor cams are hikvision bullet style with IR (not sure of the model). I believe they are all 4MP. The original installer elected to utilize 3 separate LTS NVR's to serve these cameras. These NVR's are around 5 years old now. One of the NVR's was pulled from service due to firmware issues with the mouse cursor freezing up. Instead of contacting LTS for a firmware fix, the installer chose to pull the NVR and install a switch that connects to one of the channels on another NVR to keep the cameras online. Several cameras are down, remote monitoring is down, and the whole system itself is organized very poorly. The architecture is pathetic. I don't think the installer even updated firmware one single time over 5 years. Out of courtesy, many attempts have been made to give the original installer an opportunity to correct these issues. He refuses to make any effort to do so. Therefore, I am being charged with the task of revamping the system.

My initial thought is to keep the original cams and cabling in place, pull both NVR's and go with one LTS 64 channel NVR and three unmanaged 24 port poe switches to service the cameras. The system could very easily be linked LTS-Connect which would satisfy management's need for remote viewing. I have also begun to explore some different VMS solutions. What do you guys think? Any ideas or suggestions?


Jim

 

[Holbs]

We just completed an installation of a new 64 port Dahua NVR with existing cameras.
Old setup: 2 x IDIS NVR and I think IDIS IP cameras from the 2010 era (at least, the NVR was built in 2010). Customer had a main building and remote building never connected via cabling so they had these 2 NVR's on different networks.
We come along, slap in a couple underground burial shield Cat6 cables to connect both buildings, remove both IDIS NVR's, install 1 x 64 port Dahua NVR re-using customers' existing POE switches (64 port NVR does not come with 64 POE ports, FYI). Luckily, the old IP cameras came up on the Dahua NVR 'search' thanks to ONVIF.
Now in the process of removing the old cameras (no AI, no tripwires, super basic as they come, recording 24/7) with S3 cameras with AI and people counting and bleh bleh bleh. We have swapped out 6 or 7 so far. 40+ more to go as needed.
Customer actually loves the DMSS app and SmartPSS lite PC (which does connect from his home to work via the cloud) app for these purposes. To be honest with him, I did warn him about enabling P2P and utilizing the cloud but he AOK'd it knowing the risks.
If everything keeps going right... he will want us to do this other location, again with existing IDIS NVR/IP cameras.

To sum it up... yes, get a new NVR. Can keep the 60 Hikvision cameras. Should be added to the new NVR no problem.
Take notes for corporate purposes for admin/passwords, user profiles, static IP address for everything, etc for the next guy in charge of the system. Put in plastic folder and keep under the NVR itself.
For different VMS options, once you go over a certain amount of the number of IP cameras, some could consider you needing "enterprise" level of VMS. (Verkada, Cisco, etc). I'm happy with the Dahua (and I assume it's kin, Hikvision) level of VMS as there is not much need to really go down the rabbit hole of customization. For my customers, it's more so the power and the AI of the IP cameras themselves, not the NVR or VMS.
Just have to make sure your manufacturing company does not have govt contracts as those entities have to worry about NDAA compliant IP camera & security products.

 

[Jimmyjames]

@Holbs

Thank you very much for your reply.

We do exist in a highly regulated industry, at the state level. General requirements are 30 days of stored video footage, and very thorough coverage of the facility. Aside from that we do not face any other compliance issues concerning cameras. They just have to work.


Periodically we have state inspections where they can “audit” our system and randomly request footage from a specific date. For the most part the inspectors are pretty cool about it.

I’m worried about introducing a new NVR and having to factory reset each camera one by one to get by password issues. This will be a big pain in the ass but it’s doable.

 

[Flintstone61]

Use the same NVR password initially on the 60 chan NVR and once all the cams are recognized, Later you can update the admin password, and the cams should follow suit. It may take several minutes of waiting, and some cameras might need an unplug/plug from the switch to kick them in the ass.
Also when you do the discovery or device search from inside the NVR, you can select "edit" and input the admin/pass on each cam, if they get stubborn.

 

[Holbs]

@Holbs

Thank you very much for your reply.

We do exist in a highly regulated industry, at the state level. General requirements are 30 days of stored video footage, and very thorough coverage of the facility. Aside from that we do not face any other compliance issues concerning cameras. They just have to work.


Periodically we have state inspections where they can “audit” our system and randomly request footage from a specific date. For the most part the inspectors are pretty cool about it.

I’m worried about introducing a new NVR and having to factory reset each camera one by one to get by password issues. This will be a big pain in the ass but it’s doable.

You can run a test run.
Simply move the network patch cord from the old NVR over into the new NVR while keeping the old NVR powered on and running. Only thing you did was to remove the patch cord.
Work on new NVR to add in cameras and update what you want.
If something goes amiss, can always move the patch cord back to the old NVR and be back in 100% operation like nothing happened.
Is best to have the old & new NVR have the same static IP. So you can NOT have both NVR's plugged into the network at the same time else you will have an IP conflict. Hence, only 1 plugged in at 1 time.
Oh, and 60 cameras to record? If you have to record 24/7, be aware that could be above the 80TB type of storage for 30 days. Whatever NVR you get, ensure has space for 6 or even better 8 hard drive expansion bays. Hopefully, you can cut down on that by having selected cameras record only on AI, IVS tripwires or motion.
For my IDIS <> Dahua NVR, we started with 14TB x 2 with his old cameras still recording 24/7 and I kept newer Dahua the same for now. That is just 11 days of history of 48'ish cameras recording 24/7. Note: about 35'ish of his old IDIS IP cameras were recording D1 resolution, not even 1080P or 4K.

 

[Jimmyjames]

@Holbs @Flintstone61

Thank you both for your advice here. I really appreciate you guys.

I talked to my rep at LTS today. He quoted me for an LTN8964-RN 64 channel, and 3 LTPOE-SW2403C switches. I’m unclear on whether or not this includes any HDD’s. I’m assuming it does not.

Sitting at right around $1900 for everything. I don’t have the experience to know if this is good price or not, but I’m not paying for it so I’m not too concerned. It’s about $500 less than the listed price with free shipping.

The current setup is configured for motion detection recording only on all cams. I intend to configure the new setup in the same way. I haven’t yet looked at the existing HDD’s and really do not know if we are compliant with the 30 day rule.

The new NVR would apparently have 8 HDD slots. What do you guys think as far as HDD sizing/RAID setup?

Thanks!

Edit: I could also potentially pull the existing HDD’s and utilize them in the new setup.

 

[Holbs]

@Holbs @Flintstone61

Thank you both for your advice here. I really appreciate you guys.

I talked to my rep at LTS today. He quoted me for an LTN8964-RN 64 channel, and 3 LTPOE-SW2403C switches. I’m unclear on whether or not this includes any HDD’s. I’m assuming it does not.

Sitting at right around $1900 for everything. I don’t have the experience to know if this is good price or not, but I’m not paying for it so I’m not too concerned. It’s about $500 less than the listed price with free shipping.

The current setup is configured for motion detection recording only on all cams. I intend to configure the new setup in the same way. I haven’t yet looked at the existing HDD’s and really do not know if we are compliant with the 30 day rule.

The new NVR would apparently have 8 HDD slots. What do you guys think as far as HDD sizing/RAID setup?

Thanks!

Edit: I could also potentially pull the existing HDD’s and utilize them in the new setup.

New NVR should = new Hard Drives. Surveillance hard drives like Western Digital Purple series.
Slap 2 in there. 14TB each. That's a good start. Can slap 2 or 4 or 6 more as you find it is needed. Of course, can never go wrong with 8 x 14TB hard drive space in total!
Motion detection will false trigger often: shadows, leaves, squirrels. Do any of the cameras have AI tripwires or such?

 

[Jimmyjames]

@Holbs

Good to hear you recommend the WD purple’s. I just put one in at my buddy’s place.

I know that all of the interior cameras (DS-2CD2347G2-LU) have motion activated recording. The exterior cams have this feature as well. As far as any advanced AI features I am not sure. This system was brand new in 2020.

Part of the reason that i have neglected diving into this system is because of the shitbag service provider that we have been dealing with. Now that it’s going to be my show I am willing to put in the work.

I will take a look tomorrow and post the model numbers for these particular NVR’s. I’ll at least be able to tell how many HDD’s are installed by the screws on the bottom of the NVR’s

 

[Flintstone61]

I'm spinning twin 8TB WD Purp Pro's (7200 rpm version), in the Blue iris machine, and two 4TB WD42PURZ's in the home NVR's.
Interesting that the High end NVR's you showed have all the Raid configurations. I wonder if you can select which cams record to which drive(s) or if it sees it as one location.
Be interesting to experiment with Raid 0 and Raid 5.