New guy needs advice on camera choice

[Nacman]

Hey all, I have next to zero experience with Cameras for my home security. I am a real networking geek, so before my house was sheet rocked, I ran 4000ft of CAT6. That is all tied back to a 24Port POE switch in the basement. I had three drops for POE cameras in mind.
I bought my first Camera over a year ago and I purchased the wrong camera for the use intended I think. Nonetheless it is finally up. That camera is a HIK DS-2DE4A425IW-DE mounted up front of the house. I need my backyard covered especially looking down and back doors. I have included two pic. One is of the backyard from the back looking in and then a zoom of the mounting area. It needs to be a POE camera. I don't necessarily need PTZ but I do want a good to great resolution and NV to watch the back. Door and edge of stairs is important. Any advice is appreciated.
Using BI

-Richard aka Nacman


***Added to this message for clarity of use case....
Let me expand upon my use case. I have a large home automation system with multiple motion sensors outside. They trigger lights and announcements in the house depending on the time of day or night. I do not have "Stadium Lighting" lol...but i do have bright LED floods that come on when motion is tripped. You can't place a foot on the stairs without tripping it. What I FAILED to mention, is I have a third drop under the deck at 7ft high that is 10 ft from the door in the pic already posted. The camera for that high point won't be for ID purposes, more for general overall "what is in the back yard" We have Cayotes and all kind of wild life. Safe Neighborhood as well. Safe now ;-). So I will get a camera for ID purposes for under the deck.

I don't want to burn the drop up top, and IR would be the preference for night. i can add IR emitters if needed. If that is even a possibility

 

[sebastiantombs]

Mounted that high making any real identification will be difficult to impossible. All you're going to get is the top of head shots. I also think you're under covering the back yard/house entrances. I have three cameras on the house just to cover the back of a ranch house with a deck, plus three more covering sheds and cars. Whatever camera you put up there is going to need a varifocal lens just to get some detail.

Read the material in the Wiki, in the blue bar, at the top of the page. Pay special attention to the Cliff Notes that are in there. Do that on a PC, not a phone or tablet. Rule of thumb is to mount cameras no higher than seven feet, at most eight feet. Up where that camera is going, say 15 feet or more, is just not effective except for general overview.

 

[wittaj]

That is not an ideal MP/sensor ratio! And one camera cannot be the see all, be all camera. A 4MP on a 1/2.8" sensor needs double the light of the 2MP on the same sensor. There is not enough light back there for it to work well at night.

If you want the back doors covered, the cameras need to be there, not on the 2nd floor.

It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL).

To identify someone with the 2.8mm lens that is popular, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.

• 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
• 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
• 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
• 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

Main keys are you can't locate the camera too high (not on the 2nd story or above 7 feet high unless it is for overview and not Identification purposes) or chase MP and you need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who. Also, do not chase marketing phrases like ColorVu and Full Color and the like - all cameras need light - simple physics...

 

[Nacman]

This is all good info. I have some reading to do. Let me expand upon my use case. I have a large home automation system with multiple motion sensors outside. They trigger lights and announcements in the house depending on the time of day or night. I do not have "Stadium Lighting" lol...but i do have bright LED floods that come on when motion is tripped. You can't place a foot on the stairs without tripping it. What I FAILED to mention, is I have a third drop under the deck at 7ft high that is 10 ft from the door in the pic already posted. The camera for that high point won't be for ID purposes, more for general overall "what is in the back yard" We have Cayotes and all kind of wild life. Safe Neighborhood as well. Safe now ;-). So I will get a camera for ID purposes for under the deck.

I don't want to burn the drop up top, and IR would be the preference for night. i can add IR emitters if needed. If that is even a possibility. I should have included this in the original message.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Again, given the height of that original loation you pointed out I'd say a varifocal is the only way to go. That way you can set the lens to provide the best possible view that meets your needs.

The goto cameras right now are the Dahua 5442 series, 4MP on a 1/1.8" sensor. some more reading for you -

Review - Loryata (Dahua OEM) IPC-T5442T-ZE varifocal Turret

Review-OEM Loryta IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal 4mp camera (Dahua)

IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal from @EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret Varifocal Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk store: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price Approximately US $200.00...

ipcamtalk.com

Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

All, thanks to Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY ) we have a new 4MP AI camera for testing. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review. This camera is using the OEM model number of IPC-B5442-ZE which is the equivalent of the Dahua IPC-HFW5442-ZE for reference. The IPC-B...

ipcamtalk.com

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ Turret

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+

Dahua OEM IPC-T5442TM-AS from EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk store: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price Approximately US $160 Link to camera...

ipcamtalk.com

Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Turret, Full Color, Starlight+)

Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+)

Dahua OEM IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED from EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Andy's Email: kingsecurity2014...

ipcamtalk.com

Review: IPC-HDBW5442R-ASE-NI - Dahua Technology Pro AI Bullet Network Camera

Review: OEM IPC-B5442T-ASE-NI 4MP Pro AI Starlight Full-color Fixed Bullet

Many thanks once again to Andy @EMPIRETECANDY we have for testing the OEM IPC-B5442T-ASE-NI 4MP Starlight+ Full Color bullet. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review. This is a fixed 3.6mm bullet (Pro AI) series with the 1/1.8” sensor. It has no built in...

ipcamtalk.com

2231 Review
Review-OEM IPC-T2231RP-ZS 2mp Varifocal Turret Starlight Camera

Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal

Again courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY EmpireTech Andy we have a new cam to look over. Its a new model in Dahua's new Lite H265 Series of cam's. Available for purchase here: Aliexpress.com - Online Shopping for Electronics, Fashion, Home & Garden, Toys & Sports, Automobiles and more Price is approx...

ipcamtalk.com

3241T-ZAS Review

Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal

IPC-T3241-ZAS from EMPIRETECANDY 2MP WDR Turret Varifocal AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Purchase in the IPCT Store Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price...

ipcamtalk.com

Less expensive models -

Budget Dahua Cams or china alternatives under $100?

Well here we go. I dont see anywhere more approriate to discuss this. Ive been messing around with putting together a cctv system for close to 3 years now. Ive bought everything i needed and also bought 2 cheap cams from a third party seller on walmart. Those cams cost me a grand total of $50...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Old Timer]

If all you want is an over view that is used to get an idea of what's going on, then switch to the lower cameras to see what, who, etc,
then it will work up there, just don't expect anything more.


I have several cameras ~9 down at 6-9' high to cover my doors, and other pinch points to secure my place day and night.
I decided to put a camera up at 30' on a tower. I used a 4k and typically have it up to watch during the day in a small window on my pc.
This works well to keep track of what's going on overall, but it's almost useless at night, and useless to ID anything except
to see if it's a pickup, car or tractor that just drove in.

 

[wittaj]

The bigger issue you will have is the camera will get blinded momentarily when your flood lights kick on. That can be the difference between getting a clean capture of someone or not.

You either set the camera up to "see" without the floodlight and recognize it will be blinded and washed out when it kicks on, or you set up the camera for when the floodlights kick on and recognize the image will be a lot darker when the lights are not on.

Or do as most of us and leave the flood lights on.

 

[SouthernYankee]

Start with one good quality variable focus camera. Test your mounting positions, test that the lens is correct for the coverage. Test a night with motion, with the bad guy wearing a hoodie. If you can not provide an ID to the cops and have it stand up in court you are wasting your money. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.

The bad guys like your lighting system so now they can see what they are doing. They do not provide security. Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact, they are not for security.

At a quick glance, looking at the picture
1) one camera mounted on the left post pointing out into the yard
2) one camera under the porch left side point back down the side of the house
3) one camera on the right post pointing at the back door
4) another camera on right post pointing at the at the stairs to the deck
5) another camera on right post (or on the lip of the deck) pointing at the at the back first floor windows
6) another camera on right post pointing into the yard.
7) camera on the upper deck point at the entrance door.

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
To save money do it right the first time.


============================================
On my house:
1) the front door needs three cameras, one doorbell camera, one pointing at the package drop area, one pointing back to the front door.
2) the garage entrance Needs two cameras pointing out mounted no higher than the top of the garage door.
3) the inside of the garage need two cameras one point at the garage door and one point at the house entrance
4) each entrance to the house must be covered by a camera.
5) each camera must be covered by another camera, If i can destroy a camera it must be covered, recorded by another camera.
6) in my house all public areas inside are covered, kitchen, living room, dining room, halls, game room, den
7) all outside doors are covered by a camera inside, pointing out.
===============================================

 

[Flintstone61]

It's good you have a drop under the deck. Good place for a 5442 turret. That up high cam location will be an "overview" cam for sure. If your neighbors see a PTZ roving around up there, they might have to stop playing Dr. and Nurse in the bedroom.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

Looks like can add a PTZ SD49225XA-HNR or SD49425XB-HNR at the mounting area.

 

[Holbs]

I started off with a home camera setup, just like you are thinking. I had 4 cameras (Dahua 4231's) along roof line 20' up above the 2nd floor looking down as a general overview as I never though I would need anything else. Would be nice to see cars or people who are cruising around my neighborhood ... thinking I could at least catch make/color of car or possibly identify who a human was. Found out rather quickly after some criminal activity in my neighborhood I was totally wrong. You will see a blurry fuzzy .... man-bear-pig at 11pm walking around with no way to identify.
I eventually realized my errors and bought some cameras that excel for night time, the Dahua 5231's, and placed them around the 1st floor ceiling level of 10'. I then purchased Dahua 5442's as I wanted the Dahua AI very badly and maybe a couple cameras to work in full color mode where the lighting made it possible. These are at the 6' level as I have learned FACIAL identification should be anyone's primary concern if they even start home security camera ideas.
Cameras 20' in the air = knowing what time the garbage man comes around.
Cameras at 10' or even better, 6' = can send this photo of the face to the police and make something happen.