Help me choose a system

[geek7899]

Hey all

Currently running a nearly 11 years old Hikvision system sourced from Aliexpress.
Has had a few hiccups along the way, and now I'd like to upgrade the whole setup to take advantage of upgraded technology, including night colour recording.
Currently I have the Hikvision DS-7616NI-E2/8P NVR and 6 x Hikvision DS-2CD2335-I cameras.
I have 2 cameras at front of house covering driveway & lawn. Will be replacing the front cameras with panoramic ones
Two cameras on sides of house looking back
One in back yard and one in garage.

Was going to go with Hikvision again, but @Arjun made me think about Dahua.
So I've made a comparison of what I think would be the system if I went with either manufacturer.
I am based in Sydney, Aus and the system will be sourced locally. If substantial monetary savings can be realised, I might look at Aliexpress again.

Qty	Hikvision​	Price (AUD)
1	Hikvision DS-7608NI-M2/8P 8ch PoE CCTV NVR, 128Mbps 8 PnP ports, 4K, 2 HDD Bay	$647
2	Hikvision DS-2CD2387G2P-LSU/SL 8MP ColorVu Turret 4mm Dual Head Strobe + Speaker network Camera PANORAMIC 180 Degree	$629
4	Hikvision DS-2CD2387G3-LIS2UY/SL 8MP 4K Smart Hybrid Light ColorVu 3.0 Turret Camera With Strobe / Speaker	$378

Total price for this system: AUD $3417 (use existing HDD for now)

Qty	Dahua​	Price (AUD)
1	Dahua NVR5208-8P-AI/ANZ 8-Channel PoE AI Network Video Recorder – WizSense, AcuPick, Face Recognition, 2× SATA, 4K HDMI	$583
2	Dahua DH-IPC-PDW3849-A180-AS-PV-ANZ TIOC Duo Splicing 180 Degree Turret Fixed camera	$348
4	Dahua 8MP 4K TiOC - IPC-HDW3849H-AS-PV-PRO-ANZ Turret – AcuPick AI & Active Deterrence	$345

Total price for Dahua: $2659

I know I posted this in Dahua sub-forum, but I had to post it somewhere !
Dahua is cheaper, I hope that doesn't mean I am losing out on any must-have features that Hikvision provides ?

Please suggest if ok to go ahead, or any changes ?

 

[Chokolinho]

The prices are crazy. Back then, I paid around 260,92 aud each for the Tioc Pro 8MP on Alibaba. I paid $459,48 aud for the same NVR back then. I would take the Dahua System.

 

[geek7899]

The price you pay for living in a lucky country

 

[Chokolinho]

The price you pay for living in a lucky country

Why do you only want to buy cameras for the overview and not for identification?

 

[geek7899]

Within this budget, can I get any better cameras ?
Or, what do you suggest within same budget ?

 

[Arjun]

Why do you only want to buy cameras for the overview and not for identification?

I have the exact same question to ask. The 180-degrees cameras are exclusively as an overview, not for identification due to limitations in focal length primarily. Its quite obvious you are chasing megapixels. Do you have sufficient outdoor lighting to supplement you high resolution 8mp cameras? If not, the 5442 S3 series cameras are the way to go and Andy @EMPIRETECANDY ships to Australia.
This is the equivalent NVR - same Dahua, but under Andy's brand EmpireTech NVR8CH-8P-2AI-S2 8CH 1U 8PoE 2HDDs WizSense Network Video R

Everything Hikvision has, Dahua has; its like comparing apples-to-apples. However, Dahua has better support here on the forum through active discussions and firmware updates and support from all of us

 

[geek7899]

The 180-degrees cameras are exclusively as an overview, not for

Ok, now I get you guys.
I watched a YouTube review of Hikvision pano camera by some British retailer. The night vision was pretty clear, can’t recall if they mentioned anything about identification though !
But I do get your point now

Not really chasing MP, but best bang for buck system which can go for next 10 years, hopefully. Reason I chose that particular camera is because it has 1/1.8 sensor which is recommended over 1/2.x for low light. This is as per my understanding … I may be wrong

I do have motion activated down lights on garage facade, but they point towards floor, not towards driveway.

Is this the exact Dahua camera you’re referring to ?

Dahua IPC-HDW5442EMP-ASE-S3 Dahua AI 4MP Starlight+ IP Turret Fixed IR 50m POE Wizmind - Security Wholesalers

> 4-MP 1/1.8" CMOS image sensor, low luminance, and high definition image. > Outputs max. 4 MP (2688×1520) @25/30fps > Built-in IR LED, and the max. illumination distance is 50 m. > ROI, SVC, SMART H.264+/H.265+, AI H.264/H.265, encoding after filter, flexible coding, applicable to various...

www.securitywholesalers.com.au

I get that Andy ships to Australia, but after foreign exchange conversion and shipping it is going to cost more than if I sourced locally.

 

[Arjun]

Ok, now I get you guys.
I watched a YouTube review of Hikvision pano camera by some British retailer. The night vision was pretty clear, can’t recall if they mentioned anything about identification though !
But I do get your point now

Not really chasing MP, but best bang for buck system which can go for next 10 years, hopefully. Reason I chose that particular camera is because it has 1/1.8 sensor which is recommended over 1/2.x for low light. This is as per my understanding … I may be wrong

I do have motion activated down lights on garage facade, but they point towards floor, not towards driveway.

Is this the exact Dahua camera you’re referring to ?

Dahua IPC-HDW5442EMP-ASE-S3 Dahua AI 4MP Starlight+ IP Turret Fixed IR 50m POE Wizmind - Security Wholesalers

> 4-MP 1/1.8" CMOS image sensor, low luminance, and high definition image. > Outputs max. 4 MP (2688×1520) @25/30fps > Built-in IR LED, and the max. illumination distance is 50 m. > ROI, SVC, SMART H.264+/H.265+, AI H.264/H.265, encoding after filter, flexible coding, applicable to various...

www.securitywholesalers.com.au

I get that Andy ships to Australia, but after foreign exchange conversion and shipping it is going to cost more than if I sourced locally.

Correct, but look for the model number ending in "-ZE" for adjusting the focal length; link you provided is for fixed lens
When we think of 1/1.8" sensor, most resolution we opt for is 4mp not 8mp
If you really want 1/1.2" sensor low light, you should install "alongside" with the 4mp 1/1.8" model
Next 10 years? Sorry to say, I think the most you will get is 5 years with any system before you decide to upgrade the cameras, because that is typically how long it takes to see any appreciable difference in surveillance camera performance. The 5442 is the outgoing model, it was originally released back in 2019 and is past due for its successor. Unfortunately, none of know when that day will truly be. Therefore, we keep rooting for the 5442 model.

 

[Arjun]

@geek7899 I edited and added more to post #8 - refresh your browser

 

[wittaj]

+1 above.

Without knowing what your goals of the camera is, this thread is used as listing the commonly recommended cameras (along with Amazon links) based on distance to IDENTIFY that represent the overall best value/best bang for the buck in terms of price and performance day and night. It might be a 2MP camera in some instances. Many here feel 4MP is the current sweet spot for these cameras.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

And coupled with that thread is this great thread which will show why all of the same 2.8 or 3.6mm cameras is the wrong choice (these are the common focal lengths consumer brands sell):

i-want-2-8mm-cameras-everywhere-to-see-everything-this-is-why-you-need-specific-fovs-with-purposeful-focal-lengths.70053/

If you care about night performance, it has to be a camera in the green:



We would encourage you to look at those threads in detail.

It will probably raise more questions than answers LOL.

 

[geek7899]

Thank you to both of you.
The chart posted by @wittaj is really helpful.
What I have understood is that out of the hundreds of camera models available, I cant just go and pick the latest and greatest. It might not be suitable for my purpose !

I will post some images below of my driveway and distances.
Based on the distances and heights, can you suggest a camera that is NOT vari-focal. I am trying to keep costs down !
I dont need the camera to be the top of the chart in Dahua's residential offerings. I know with my budget, there is going to be some compromise !
I might put a 180 somewhere along the front facade, just for overview. But dont want the house look like a fortress either !

Image below is a pic from front of house, showing the two DS-2CD2335-I cameras currently installed. Both are around 10-11ft high from road level, but since my driveway is on an incline, so as you get closer to camera, height is less than 8ft. Hope that makes sense.


Image below is what we might need to calculate focal length ?

Distance from camera to furthurest point on my property is around 33 ft, or 10 metres.
Is there a formula to calculate the fixed focal length camera best suited for IDENTIFY in this situation ?

 

[geek7899]

Budget per cam: US $250 plus/minus 10%

Couple of stills from current right cam

 

[geek7899]

My house boundary in red.
rear yard is a narrow-ish 4m deep on left and only 3m deep on right
Thinking of putting a 180 cam in middle. Is that a good idea ?
Also plan to put couple of sensor lights so they light up when there is motion. This should provide ample light for camera.
Colour4K-T180 suitable for this ?

 

[wittaj]

The problem is without any light, the camera image will be black. Then it might take a second or two or more for the camera to adjust to the motion lights coming on.

And I wouldn't use the 180 for ID purposes except in limited unique placements.

 

[mat200]

Can a 180 FOV dual lens camera be useful for ID purposes ? - yes, but the angle to the face, and the distance to the face need to be considered. ( see the DORI section of the cliff notes )

use the following equation, and use 90 degrees instead of 180 as the 180 degree camera models are dual lens cameras ( if only one lens, use 180 )

The equation to calculate the Radius (the distance in feet) for identification for 100 ppf as discussed above: Radius = (( Horizontal Res / 100 ppf ) * ( 360 / H FOV Angle ))/2*Pi

in general members have found the 4MP 1/1.8" sensor cameras to be better for low light than cameras with smaller sensors ( like the 1/2.8" sensor of the cameras you were looking at )

note, the equation above is for best conditions - and low light will reduce the distance and effectiveness