Feedback on DORI-based Camera Selection (Front Door & Garage) - Did I Overkill or Misunderstand?

[phdelodder]

I've been going down the rabbit hole and trying to apply the DORI methodology for my camera selections, with a specific focus on achieving Identification at my critical choke points.

I've read and tried to understand the core concepts in these two threads:

• The Importance of Focal Length over MP in Camera Selection
• I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything - This is why you need specific FOVs with purposeful focal lengths

Based on my desired Identification distance and FOV, here are my proposed camera selections. I'd appreciate feedback on whether these are overkill, or if I have completely misunderstood the application of DORI/focal length concepts, particularly for the longer 15m range.

I have attached an image showing the general layout for reference. ### Use Case 1: Front Door/Entry Point

• Goal: Identification of a person (face/features).
• Critical Distance: A few meters (let's say 3-5m).
• Required FOV: Approximately 60° (to cover the landing/walkway).
• Selected Cameras (4MP):
  
  • HIKVISION DS-2CD2346G2H-I(U)
  • Dahua IPC-HDW3441EM-S-S2

Use Case 2: Garage/Driveway Coverage​

• Goal: Identification of a person (face/features) entering the area.
• Critical Distance: Approximately 15 meters.
• Required FOV: 90° (to cover the full width of the driveway).
• Selected Cameras:
  
  • 4MP (Varifocal for dialing in focal length):
    
    • HIKVISION DS-2CD2H46G2-IZS(2.8-12mm) — My reasoning here is to use the varifocal to dial in the focal length (likely 6mm-8mm) necessary to hit the required Identification PPI at 15m, as DORI calculators suggest.
    • Dahua IPC-HDW3449T-ZS-IL
  • 8MP (Fixed Lens, High-Res):
    
    • Hikvision DS-2CD2H86G2-IZS
    • Dahua IPC-HDW3849T-ZS-IL

My main question is: For the 15m / 90° requirement, are the 4MP or 8MP cameras listed appropriate, or have I over-spec'd them? Given the distance and wide FOV, I know I need higher pixel density/a longer focal length, but am I focusing too much on the MP count instead of the lens?

Any guidance on my selections would be greatly appreciated!

 

[bigredfish]

As long as you understand that you can only do so much with one camera, and that ideally you need more than one at both locations…especially the garage …

My suggestions without actually seeing the scene. Best image quality imho

1- Fr Door- priority is facial detail at door and immediate area within 10-15ft
- 5442TM-ASE fixed 3.6mm if you’re ok with best image quality in IR and possibly switching to color with a bright enough motion flood

WizMind 5 Series - Dahua International

WizMind 5 Series

www.dahuasecurity.com

View attachment Home_ch3_20241117042259_20241117042326.mp4

OR

- 3449H-AS-PV-PRO if you want the benefit of running IR with onboard white LEDs that can be activated by motion AND optional warning lights, siren, and excellent two-way talk

https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/All-Products/Network-Cameras/WizSense-Series/3-Series/TiOC-PRO-WizColor/IPC-HDW3449H-AS-PV-PRO

View attachment 192.168.1.110_ch3_20250320205300_20250320205343.mp4



2- Garage/Driveway - goal 45-60ft 90 degree overview plus ID ? Tough and will require sacrificing something

Problem here is distance vs wide angle view vs ID. As mentioned this is hard with one camera.

Couple of different ways to approach this

A- Two cameras - One with greater zoom for ID and one for overview.
In that case I would recommend a 5442H-ZHE for wide angle and still a little bit of room to zoom to desired coverage area paired with a a Z4 model to zoom and get good facial ID at 45-60ft.
Problem here is light and lack of color. You would ideally set a 4000+ lumen motion flood to activate and provide enough light for color when activated

IPC-HFW5442H-ZHE - Dahua International

IPC-HFW5442H-ZHE

www.dahuasecurity.com

IPC-HFW5442E-Z4E - Dahua International

IPC-HFW5442E-Z4E

www.dahuasecurity.com

View attachment Home_ch2_20240923204827_20240923204909.mp4

Here's a Youtube hosted version of the Z4 video as the forum software is fucked again today


* Note the target is 45ft but it’s just as good on other side of street at 60+ft

B- Two cameras but Replace the 5442H-ZHE with a new 3449H-ZAS-PV-PRO which though untested, should be similar to the fixed 3.6mm version which I use at the door and is quite good. This gives you close in color on motion with onboard white LED activation with 25+ ft of good color ID, but still relying on the Z4 for the farther ID shot at the garage

https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/All-Products/Network-Cameras/WizSense-Series/3-Series/TiOC-PRO-WizColor/IPC-HDW3449H-ZAS-PV-PRO

C- A PTZ combined with white motion activated flood or always on 4000+lumen flood
- Leaving model blank for now and there are tradeoffs with all of them. the newer multi lens units with a PTZ and fixed overview lenses combined are very interesting but I've not seen enough real world tests to judge quality. In theory they are made for your scene and effectively replace the two camera solution.

Maybe someone has a good example.... ^^^?

 

[phdelodder]

Thanks for your reply. I must admit, I'm now even more confused! I appreciate the high-level recommendations, but separating the goals and introducing specialized cameras has made the initial choice a lot more complicated. In the initial thread, I have added a floorplan image to show the exact layout of the house, front door, and the long, linear driveway path (about 17m).

Garage/Driveway (ID ≈15m + 90∘ Overview): What is your single best-compromise solution here or where do I add a second camera?

I look forward to hearing your final thoughts once you've had your coffee and seen the layout. Thanks again for the specialized input!

 

[wittaj]

You are overthinking it.

For the 8MP cams, you have selected cameras not on the ideal MP/sensor ratio and that will significantly impact the ability for a varifocal to work in low light conditions. The 3849 series has lots of problems and here is a post with links to issues folks have had with it.

As I have said in that thread you linked, and as bigredfish suggests, one camera cannot be the be all/see all. Each camera is selected for a goal/purpose.

As it relates to distances, that is why I posted suggested distances in that thread above to help make the process easier.

One camera to serve as IDENTIFY at 15meters and serve as overview doesn't exist. Well there are now gimmick PTZs with a 180 camera on top, but they are on less than ideal MP/sensor ratios and people have shown the limitations at night.

DORI is a nice tool in the tool box, but these numbers are under ideal situations with a marketing spin and real world experiences of DORI is that those numbers are established by the manufacturer and are based on best case scenarios like an object not moving and ideal light conditions.

Real world you should cut them in half during daytime and cut that half in half or more at night time.

As an example, our long time resident camera expert Wildcat ran the Dahua 4K/X 8MP 1/1.2" sensor thru the paces. Keep in mind this 4K/X camera is incredible.

He had the 3.6mm version and here is the screenshot from 40 feet in the ideal daylight and standing still, which based on DORI numbers is the supposed IDENTIFY distance for this camera with the 3.6mm lens and I think most of would agree that this is not IDENTIFY quality, even if digitally zoomed in:

I have the 4K/X and 4K/T and they are incredible cameras, but I wouldn't use it for IDENTIFY past 15-20 feet, or half of what the DORI number is.

 

[phdelodder]

Thank you for the detailed feedback and the reality check on the 8MP sensor ratios and the DORI metrics. Given the geometry of the 17m long view and the reality that one fixed camera cannot do both jobs: I am ready to commit to two cameras for the driveway if needed, but I need guidance on the placement (where on the wall/corner) and the specific lens (e.g., a 2.8mm Wide/Overview and a 6mm or 8mm ID cam).

In short, I am looking for the best real-world, actionable solution for the Driveway/backyard area looking at the back of the house (about 17m deep) and 90° FoV using the floorplan I provided.

 

[bigredfish]

Thank you for the detailed feedback and the reality check on the 8MP sensor ratios and the DORI metrics. Given the geometry of the 17m long view and the reality that one fixed camera cannot do both jobs: I am ready to commit to two cameras for the driveway if needed, but I need guidance on the placement (where on the wall/corner) and the specific lens (e.g., a 2.8mm Wide/Overview and a 6mm or 8mm ID cam).

In short, I am looking for the best real-world, actionable solution for the Driveway/backyard area looking at the back of the house (about 17m deep) and 90° FoV using the floorplan I provided.

Got it uploaded to YT

See revised post above. I think you'll find myself and @wittaj on the same page

 

[bigredfish]

Thank you for the detailed feedback and the reality check on the 8MP sensor ratios and the DORI metrics. Given the geometry of the 17m long view and the reality that one fixed camera cannot do both jobs: I am ready to commit to two cameras for the driveway if needed, but I need guidance on the placement (where on the wall/corner) and the specific lens (e.g., a 2.8mm Wide/Overview and a 6mm or 8mm ID cam).

In short, I am looking for the best real-world, actionable solution for the Driveway/backyard area looking at the back of the house (about 17m deep) and 90° FoV using the floorplan I provided.

On corner of house, both VF with one being standard 2.8-12mm and the other being the 8-32mm Z4

If you are mounting at the garage same but you may choose different angles to capture the door to the garage and down the driveway

 

[phdelodder]

On corner of house, both VF with one being standard 2.8-12mm and the other being the 8-32mm Z4

If you are mounting at the garage same but you may choose different angles to capture the door to the garage and down the driveway

Thanks for breaking down the options. I agree that the dual-camera solution provides the most reliable coverage.

My hesitation on the garage is simply what is diagonal across from it: the back door/backside of the house and next to the house is the drive way. This area is a high priority.

Given that critical detail, I am now leaning toward the IPC-HDW3449H-ZAS-PV-PRO seem more desired for the approach to the backside/door and the garage over the drive way. I would need to wire up some new cables to view the garage doors. However that is not a desire at this point.

Main goal is to see if anything comes up over the driveway towards the back of the house or the garage. The Front door camera could have a blind spot that I want to cover with the garage one.

 

[phdelodder]

@bigredfish I have taken a different approach now, instead of focusing on the minimal required camera's, I have indicated the areas that need covering and possible points for camera's.


Based on what I understand:

• camera 1: 5442TM-ASE - Identification
• camera 2: leaning towards 5442TM-ASE - Identification
• camera 3: some thing that can Recognition, vari focal( 2.8 - 12mm) bullet with 4 or 5 MP
• camera 4: 5442TM-ASE - Identification to monitor the door and the garage port

for 5 and 6 still doubting, there is a window that could be used to force into the garage.

based on this picture do you think it's possible? Would I still the same type of cameras or could I use a more budget friendly?

 

[bigredfish]

Saving $50 on a camera just usually doesn't pay.

I think you're fine just remember the 3440 PRO as a possible at entrance doors because of the great control it provides over onboard IR or Color and can be triggered to allow for both. No downside and it actually sees IR light better than the 5442.
Its hard to describe but the 5442 has a better quality image clearly. But at 10ft I can't make a strong argument that its THAT much better given the 3449's ability to put white light on the target on demand.