Dahua NVR5208-XI (WizMind) — worth it or better options?
- Thread starter Macak11
- Start date
How much are you saving?
We have seen many people here try to save a few bucks by not buying Empiretech only to find out their device is an older unit or can't be upgraded, etc.
Nighthawk37
Young grasshopper
I’m not trying to save money here. I’m trying to go with the newer tech. If Luminys is the new Dahua then it makes sense that the older products won’t be updated anymore …
Luminsys cams & NVRs are not compatible with Dahua ones...
they use different private protocol...
Luminsys are using Dahua tech, but they are not newer..
new features are released under Dahua brand first...
If you want to save money, use empiretech01.com NVRs/cams..
you have OEM version of all Dahua international popular lines ..
Nighthawk37
Young grasshopper
can you please explain what you mean by a "different private protocol" ? do you mean a different port? i cant imagine the camera tech is going to be much different since it just rebranded. can you please provide more details? thank you
when you use Dahua NVR and cams, NVR talks with cams using "Dahua private protocol"...
the same are using Dahua apps (DMSS, Smart PSS) - they connect with cams/nvr using Dahua private protocol.
over this protocol you have all functionality (all AI functions, ability to configure cameras/NVR etc).
when you mix different manufacturers in NVR and cams you must use universal ONVIF.
Over ONVIF usually works only video stream and nothing more...
No AI, no motion detection, no remote configuration, no 2-way talkback, no lights actions etc..
the same situation is in Dahua, HIK, Uniview or any other brand.
So always you must choose one manufacturer - and stay in his ecosystem to have full functionality and have ability to use his apps.
if you want to use Luminsys gear - stay fully in this ecosystem and don't mix with Dahua..
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in this case those are no rebranded cams...
in theory Luminsys cams are NDAA compatible..
So they are produced outside Chinna by different company / factory (Foxlink in Taiwan). Foxlink / Luminsys bought some license from Dahua for technology (hardware & software designs) as starting point.
But they must differ enough to Dahua to be NDAA compatible. So they modified them.
If US government will find that those are almost identical to Dahua products (especially on SOC or software/firmware side which is biggest know-how here), they will put them on the same ban list as HIK & Dahua..
ps. looking at AI features, looks like Luminsys are using the same HiSilicon SOCs as Dahua & HIK. HiSilicon is company from Huawei group and it is on the same ban list as Dahua & HIK. In my opinion once Luminsys starts gaining some market share in the US market, it will end up on the same ban list for one reason or another. NDAA status is only temporary. Especially with actual US China politics..
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Nighthawk37
Young grasshopper
If this is the case how do the empire cams work? Or do I need to buy the empire DVR to work with their cameras?
Empiretech cameras are Dahua OEM made by Dahua.
Much different than what Steve explained for the other camera that are made from a different manufacturer.
Andy's cameras are Dahua OEM equipment sold under the names Loryta and Empiretech. He also supplies them to the ipcamtalk store.
Some of my cameras I have bought from Andy from his Amazon store come as Dahua cams in Dahua boxes with Dahua logos, and some are not logo'd - I think it depends on how many cameras Andy buys if he gets them with the Dahua Logo or not. But regardless, they are Dahua units. If you get a unit that has Dahua on it, then the camera GUI will say Dahua; otherwise it will simply say IP Camera but looks identical except without the logo. Some of his cameras may come with EmpireTech stamped on them as well.
His cameras and NVRs are international models and many of them are not available through Dahua USA authorized dealers, but his cameras and NVRs are usually better than what you can find from a USA authorized dealer.
You can update the firmware on Andy's cameras and NVRs from the Dahua website, thus proving they are real Dahua. But you will find that the firmware we get from him is actually better and more recent than what is on the Dahua website because many members here provide feedback to Andy and then Dahua makes modifications to the firmware and sends back to him and then he sends out to his customers. These have been great improvements that Dahua doesn't even update their firmware and add to their website. So many of us are running a newer firmware than those that purchase Dahua cameras through professional installers. Smart IR on the 5442 series is one such improvement. Autotracking on the 49225 and 49425 PTZ is another. We got the next version of AI SMD 3.0 prior to anyone else as well.
Look at the threads here where members are actually testing firmware and improving it for Dahua - find a Dahua dealer with that type of relationship that Andy has with Dahua - I don't think you will find it. Look at the Dahua 4k camera on the 1/1.2" sensor as an example - Dahua provides cameras to Andy to sell before Dahua even made it available and look at all the improvements being made to the firmware from input from customers right here on this site. And the kicker is, we are not Dahua's target market - it is the professional installers...
Much different than what Steve explained for the other camera that are made from a different manufacturer.
Andy's cameras are Dahua OEM equipment sold under the names Loryta and Empiretech. He also supplies them to the ipcamtalk store.
Some of my cameras I have bought from Andy from his Amazon store come as Dahua cams in Dahua boxes with Dahua logos, and some are not logo'd - I think it depends on how many cameras Andy buys if he gets them with the Dahua Logo or not. But regardless, they are Dahua units. If you get a unit that has Dahua on it, then the camera GUI will say Dahua; otherwise it will simply say IP Camera but looks identical except without the logo. Some of his cameras may come with EmpireTech stamped on them as well.
His cameras and NVRs are international models and many of them are not available through Dahua USA authorized dealers, but his cameras and NVRs are usually better than what you can find from a USA authorized dealer.
You can update the firmware on Andy's cameras and NVRs from the Dahua website, thus proving they are real Dahua. But you will find that the firmware we get from him is actually better and more recent than what is on the Dahua website because many members here provide feedback to Andy and then Dahua makes modifications to the firmware and sends back to him and then he sends out to his customers. These have been great improvements that Dahua doesn't even update their firmware and add to their website. So many of us are running a newer firmware than those that purchase Dahua cameras through professional installers. Smart IR on the 5442 series is one such improvement. Autotracking on the 49225 and 49425 PTZ is another. We got the next version of AI SMD 3.0 prior to anyone else as well.
Look at the threads here where members are actually testing firmware and improving it for Dahua - find a Dahua dealer with that type of relationship that Andy has with Dahua - I don't think you will find it. Look at the Dahua 4k camera on the 1/1.2" sensor as an example - Dahua provides cameras to Andy to sell before Dahua even made it available and look at all the improvements being made to the firmware from input from customers right here on this site. And the kicker is, we are not Dahua's target market - it is the professional installers...
yes they will work.
they are simply Dahua OEM's (Dahua product in different package / under different brand)..
Nighthawk37
Young grasshopper
Ok so I’m going to buy the empire tech items. Last question. The NVR options are
It sounds like the man difference is multi channel face detection? Anything else? I really don’t care that much about Face ID … nice to have but the 2xl isn’t in stock. Just wondering what I’m missing.
Also with the 2AI I can update to dahua 5 firmware?
16P-2XI or 16P-2AI
And they are the same as the wizsense NVRs?It sounds like the man difference is multi channel face detection? Anything else? I really don’t care that much about Face ID … nice to have but the 2xl isn’t in stock. Just wondering what I’m missing.
Also with the 2AI I can update to dahua 5 firmware?
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bigredfish
Known around here
Two big differences
Wizsense
2AI = 384 Mbps bandwidth
And no VMD by recorder
Wizmind
2XI = 512 Mbps bandwidth
VMD by recorder
They are different series
Wizsense
2AI = 384 Mbps bandwidth
And no VMD by recorder
Wizmind
2XI = 512 Mbps bandwidth
VMD by recorder
They are different series
Taking into account that we're "all" here buying prime IP Cameras here (Dahua, Hik, EmpireTech) that are all capable of smart detection, ... do you agree that it would be overkill to buy "top notch" NVR as we can definitely leave our camera make the analysis job ? Being a noob in term of NVR , I'm wondering what NVR should I buy in the near future as I own cameras that are already performing very well "stand alone" (but not recording permanently)
bigredfish
Known around here
I'm using an 8 year old model NVR and I dont lay awake at night wishing I had the latest model
5216-16P-4KS2E
I'll likely move to a newer model in the coming year just because of EOL support and I really need to understand the intricacies of various scenarios as far as settings and interactions to better help users here on the forum, which is part of my camera hobby.
That said, the big practical benefits to me, as a typical home user, (and folks like @steve1225 or @Mark_M and others who have deeper technical detail knowledge will surely name additional reasons), are 3 simple things
1- Increased bandwidth - more flexibility on adding cameras or higher resolution
2- The ability to run one AI feature on the NVR and a different one on the camera. Mostly this comes down to either Face detect/Recognition, ANPR or VMD
3- AcuPick or whatever they call their AI assisted search feature this month
I get by without all 3 just fine as a home user currently
5216-16P-4KS2E
I'll likely move to a newer model in the coming year just because of EOL support and I really need to understand the intricacies of various scenarios as far as settings and interactions to better help users here on the forum, which is part of my camera hobby.
That said, the big practical benefits to me, as a typical home user, (and folks like @steve1225 or @Mark_M and others who have deeper technical detail knowledge will surely name additional reasons), are 3 simple things
1- Increased bandwidth - more flexibility on adding cameras or higher resolution
2- The ability to run one AI feature on the NVR and a different one on the camera. Mostly this comes down to either Face detect/Recognition, ANPR or VMD
3- AcuPick or whatever they call their AI assisted search feature this month
I get by without all 3 just fine as a home user currently
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Mark_M
Known around here
Don't forget WizSeek coming soon.
I suggest the NVRs with built in AI functions if you have the money to spend on it.
You can run the camera AI & NVR's AI at the same time on a channel. E.g. IVS by camera and Face Recognition by NVR. Works great to detecting your local courier delivering a parcel.
H. Swanson
Pulling my weight
You gonna get the latest NVR model to test? If yes, can you test out different browsers to see if the UI is more modern? I'd love to see us get away from plugins and take a more HTML5 approach.