Does it matter if you use CAT5e for a long run?
- Thread starter Tazz 316
- Start date
I think this will turn into an opinion poll. Mine is that for that distance, use cat6 to get awg23 conductors instead of awg24 conductors in cat5e. Make sure the cat6 is awg23, not all are, and of course solid copper conductors, not CCA.
Running some ballpark numbers is easy if you assume a power draw of 50 watts and 50 volt POE. At a 300 foot run, the round trip resistance of 24awg is 7.7 ohms, and for 23awg 6.1 ohms. If drawing 50 watts, the current will be an even amp. That means the 24awg wire will drop 7.7 volts and the 23awg wire, 6.1 volts. Not a night-and-day difference by any means, but you could be operating on the edge of what a camera will and won't accept.
In reality, I assume your camera won't draw 50 watts, and cutting all the numbers in half for 25 watts is probably more realistic. The probably is high that either cable would work. I'd still go with cat6. Opinion. And not knowing which camera you're going to use, my comments are based on assumption.
Running some ballpark numbers is easy if you assume a power draw of 50 watts and 50 volt POE. At a 300 foot run, the round trip resistance of 24awg is 7.7 ohms, and for 23awg 6.1 ohms. If drawing 50 watts, the current will be an even amp. That means the 24awg wire will drop 7.7 volts and the 23awg wire, 6.1 volts. Not a night-and-day difference by any means, but you could be operating on the edge of what a camera will and won't accept.
In reality, I assume your camera won't draw 50 watts, and cutting all the numbers in half for 25 watts is probably more realistic. The probably is high that either cable would work. I'd still go with cat6. Opinion. And not knowing which camera you're going to use, my comments are based on assumption.
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+1 to what @tigerwillow said ^^^^, IMO....
- CAT-6
- #23 AWG
- Solid copper (no CCA / Copper Clad Aluminum)
- Last but not least, the cable's jacket rated for the application.
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looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
I agree, use Cat6 awg23, solid copper wire, Along with good quality connectors.
You don't want to have to pull the wire a second time, right?
You don't want to have to pull the wire a second time, right?
right!, shielded or unshielded.
BTW what cable are you guys using these days? There is a ton on amazon.
I was using Monoprice until it was hard to get on Amazon. I have most recently used True Cable.
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
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- 27,763
Cat5e vs Cat6
additional note, I have seen some Cat 5e with 23 AWG solid copper wire ( thicker than 24 AWG )
Absolutely will be important to maximize the power carry potential at this range, so thicker solid copper wired cable will be better.
Also, pay attention to the cable sheath, and cable rating.
( burial if you plan to bury it )
additional note, I have seen some Cat 5e with 23 AWG solid copper wire ( thicker than 24 AWG )
Absolutely will be important to maximize the power carry potential at this range, so thicker solid copper wired cable will be better.
Also, pay attention to the cable sheath, and cable rating.
( burial if you plan to bury it )
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
What about using shielded or unshielded.?
Also do you need Direct-Burial cable if you run it through a PVC pipe? Just trying to save a few $$.
Also do you need Direct-Burial cable if you run it through a PVC pipe? Just trying to save a few $$.
If the PVC conduit is underground I recommend the cable jacket be rated for flooded burial or direct burial, as water WILL work its way into the conduit over time generally via above-ground fittings which allow outside moisture into the conduit by a recurring thermal differential process. The moisture/water never leaves but instead accumulates and the cable winds up being submerged in water 24/7/365.
The PVC or polyethylene jacket on cable rated R for riser or P for plenum isn't necessarily permeable by water BUT it's generally thinner and not as tough as the the HDPE jacket on cable rated for flooded or direct burial, making it more prone to cuts, slits and abrasions in the jacket from stones, sand and other sharp objects that could be encountered in the conduit, especially when it's pulled in.
Even though I have a few thousand feet of riser cable in buried PVC, I don't disagree with anything TonyR stated above. While the cost difference was certainly a factor, my main motivation was to have the wires color coded. One of several conduits leaving the house carries 8 cables, all different colors. Outside they branch off at various places and knowing which color is for which camera saved a lot of time, and still does when troubleshooting. When I was laying the conduit, I was very careful to keep it clean, with each 10 or 20 foot section verified clean and capped at both ends until attaching it. I also used conduit bodies to keep the pulling distances shorter, plus larger diameter than necessary PVC, mostly 1-1/2 and 1-1/4 inch. Seven years ago, PVC was dirt cheap compared to today.
I've had two totally unanticipated problems:
1. Once a riser cable goes above ground, it totally stinks for UV tolerance. After a couple of years in sunlight the jacket color fades, becomes brittle, and eventually falls off. A fortunate easy solution is to cover the exposed parts with 1/4 inch split loom tubing.
2. Mice get into the conduits if you don't have any open ends sealed. In a lot of cases I just stuff a plastic bag tightly into the open end, in other cases use a PVC cap with a slot just big enough for the wire(s) to pass through.
My thinking at the time was that the labor of burying the conduit far overshadowed the cost of the PVC or the wire, and once the conduit is in, it's easy to add or replace the wires. While that's true, it's still a major amount of work to pull a wire through the crawlspace and a few hundred feet of conduit. I haven't had to replace any cables, but if I ever do, I'd gladly go back in time and spend more on more robust wire. The older body does not want to go through the wire pulling contortions any more.
I've had two totally unanticipated problems:
1. Once a riser cable goes above ground, it totally stinks for UV tolerance. After a couple of years in sunlight the jacket color fades, becomes brittle, and eventually falls off. A fortunate easy solution is to cover the exposed parts with 1/4 inch split loom tubing.
2. Mice get into the conduits if you don't have any open ends sealed. In a lot of cases I just stuff a plastic bag tightly into the open end, in other cases use a PVC cap with a slot just big enough for the wire(s) to pass through.
My thinking at the time was that the labor of burying the conduit far overshadowed the cost of the PVC or the wire, and once the conduit is in, it's easy to add or replace the wires. While that's true, it's still a major amount of work to pull a wire through the crawlspace and a few hundred feet of conduit. I haven't had to replace any cables, but if I ever do, I'd gladly go back in time and spend more on more robust wire. The older body does not want to go through the wire pulling contortions any more.
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
If you are burying it outdoors, and if you ever have lightning, then yes, you need to use shielded.
Could we frame this as opinion or level of risk tolerance? I've used thousands of feet of unshielded UTP in buried PVC for 7 years, have lightning, and have lost exactly one driveway sensor to lightning. To me it's all about risk and probability. I'm not in one of the heaviest lightning areas of the country, so that helps. I'm on the 2nd generation of cameras and will likely move to the next generation in a year with Andy's new T59PRO series. That means, so far, that the extra cost and aggravation of using STP would have been a waste of time and money. Even if I would have lost a few cameras and/or switches, that wouldn't have offset the cost increase of STP over UTP. Using STP then gets you into the technical grounding can-of-worms, the most popular about grounding at one or both ends, followed by single or multi-point grounding source. Do it wrong and the risk of equipment loss increases. I made my risk vs. reward decision, and yes, everything could be fried tomorrow, but so far it has worked out well.
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
Oregon gets a small piddling of lightning strikes compared to others.
Thought I said that: " I'm not in one of the heaviest lightning areas of the country, so that helps"
Just one of many factors in the risk/reward equation.
I do happen to be in the most lightning-prone part of the state, and when it happens, it happens big time. One example:
"Central Oregon received 2700+ lightning strikes from the storms that came through yesterday."
Central Oregon records 2,700 lightning strikes, with 13 new incidents quickly contained
Those "incidents" are lightning sparked wildfires, which is why it's heavily monitored.
Yes, thicker jackets can often "save the day."
I saw the thermoplastic THW and UF thermoplastic insulation of so, so many #14 and #12 solid copper traffic signal conductors get a tiny slit in them when being pulled in, likely from rocks, sand or poorly manufactured rigid conduit bushings. It wouldn't be easily visible to the naked eye initially but would show up 5 to 10 years down the road when 2 or more of the compromised conductors (like the wire that displays the green traffic signal for a through movement) would "leak" some 120VAC over onto another compromised conductor (like the wire that displays the green arrow traffic signal for a left turn movement that CONFLICTS with the aforementioned through movement). The conflict monitor in the cabinet that sits outboard of the traffic signal controller would sense this voltage and place the entire intersection in red flash, which is a problem at a signalized intersection of 6 lane width, posted 55MPH speed limit and 45,000 vehicles per day passing through it. Talk about pandemonium, especially at rush hour.
I've used True Cable outdoor or direct burial CAT5e and CAT6 about five years without issue.
I believe their direct burial CAT6 requires using their staggered RJ-45s with larger holes, but the CAT5e can be used with standard connectors.
They also have a crimper that scores the jacket well. It never goes too deep, but has worked well on every wire I have used it on, whether standard or thick jacket. It also has the crimper for shielded wire, and locks closed to where you can keep it in your pocket or hang it on your back pocket.
I believe their direct burial CAT6 requires using their staggered RJ-45s with larger holes, but the CAT5e can be used with standard connectors.
They also have a crimper that scores the jacket well. It never goes too deep, but has worked well on every wire I have used it on, whether standard or thick jacket. It also has the crimper for shielded wire, and locks closed to where you can keep it in your pocket or hang it on your back pocket.
Oregon provides a great example for how lightning can vary a lot within a few hundred miles. No hurt feelings to not read, it's a bit off topic. The weather is defined in a major way by the ocean on the west and the Cascade mountain range about 110 miles inland. The stretch from the ocean to the mountains gets a lot of rain and hardly any lightning. It's not unusual for someone living in this area to go a whole year without seeing a single thunderstorm or lightning bolt. Most of the state's population is in this area. There are some thunderstorms in the mountains, followed by a rain shadow to the east with rare rainfall or thunderstorms. Moving east from there, rain and thunderstorms begin to ramp up, and about 70 miles east of the mountains there's a sort of thunderstorm alley with frequent, often dry lightning, usually in late afternoon and early evening. East of that the weather in general becomes more consistent over a wide area.
In summary with respect to lightning, starting at the ocean and moving east:
I live to the west of the peak lightning "alley". Direct hits are infrequent. Flashes in the sky and lots of thunder are frequent in the summer. Sometimes the lightning triggers my magnetic driveway sensor. The worst storm left 6" of hail a few years ago in the summer. The scariest lightning I've ever experienced was in central Texas.
In summary with respect to lightning, starting at the ocean and moving east:
- 70 miles of rare lightning
- 40 miles of some lightning
- 10 miles of no lightning
- increasing lightning becoming very frequent and heavy after another 60 miles
- decreasing lightning
I live to the west of the peak lightning "alley". Direct hits are infrequent. Flashes in the sky and lots of thunder are frequent in the summer. Sometimes the lightning triggers my magnetic driveway sensor. The worst storm left 6" of hail a few years ago in the summer. The scariest lightning I've ever experienced was in central Texas.