Dahua WizColor 5x59-PRO and SmartLight 5x59-IL new series
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but it's 2021 image sensor.. taken from HIK ColorVu 2.0 cams..
As I told a few times, all progress in 2024/2025 Dahua WizColor / HIK ColorVu 3.0 cams are based only on new SOC with AI-ISP video processing.
Zero progress on sensor level..
This is very visible from the comments here on the forum, where other participants are struggling with the effects of always-on AI-ISP processing (2D/3D AI Noise reduction)
It's a bit old but already has the best excellent specs, almost 100% QE on visible light band, and 70%+ QE at 850nm. I don't see any sensor with better specs so far.
I have a Dahua Chinese domestic model with this sensor, SoC is Axera AX620Q with the so called AI ISP. I don't believe it, I think the image improvements are from the sensor itself, the ISP has little impact.
I compared it with a model from Anjvision with the same sensor but different SoC, SigmaStar SSC378DE which was born before the AI world. From my testing, there's little difference in ultra low light environment, the noise and the ghosting
I have a Dahua Chinese domestic model with this sensor, SoC is Axera AX620Q with the so called AI ISP. I don't believe it, I think the image improvements are from the sensor itself, the ISP has little impact.
I compared it with a model from Anjvision with the same sensor but different SoC, SigmaStar SSC378DE which was born before the AI world. From my testing, there's little difference in ultra low light environment, the noise and the ghosting
This 'always on' processing needs to stop or at least have a toggle for those who don't want the 'we think we probably know what you want so tough luck' option turned on! I am seeing this on the 54Pro and wish it could just be disabled for more natural viewing.
While we are on this auto processing discussion, why do camera manufacturers insist on auto settings having shutter way too slow. As we know, having a nice picture for the brochure or website is all well and good, but sadly the criminals do not pose for portrait shots in the dead of night! At least maybe set shutter speed to 1/100 or 1/80, at least that would give beginners a chance without manual settings. Rant over!
In comparison to classic IR 1/1.8" image sensor with F1.6 aperture cams with classic processing (like Dahua 5442) the difference is bigger..
Mostly due 3D AI noise reduction (creates very good static pictures), always-on HDR (dynamic remapping) and 3D-LUT color grading.
But also different sensor (with totally different noise characteristics) and how open is aperture.
If you compare this cam to older Full Color cams with F1.0 aperture (Dahua 5449, Color-Vu 2.0) then difference is smaller..
But I hated Full Color cams video processing with very high digital sharpening and over-saturated colors..
I don't think this is possible.
AI-ISP is very different video processing pipeline from classic Dahua/HIK one (I found this one year ago with TIOC-PRO).
It can be tuned (internal Dahua configuration of used SOC) but not switched off.. very similar to full color cams, which had not switchable full color processing..
if you don't like AI-ISP video processing PRO cams are not for you..
You should look at new 5459-IL models, which are PRO models without WizColor (AI-ISP) and with image sensor taken from 5442/5842...
Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) do you will have any new 5459-IL models to any testing?
Interesting, hopefully it can be tuned out as much as possible. The 5459-IL series look interesting although aperture not spectacular, anything which gives better manual control without Ai processing can only be good!
CCTVCam
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- Sep 25, 2017
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There is a reason for the movie industry spending lots of time and money on lighting equipment and people to haul it around, along with the generators and cables to run them for the past 100 years. Natural light, electric or reflectors, there has to be enough light to capture images. And much more for color. Considering this the quality of the images you guys are producing is pretty fantastic.
There are sensors that can see. The problem is they don't seem available to the CCTV industry or available at the right price. The one camera we saw that could function in the dark very very well was @$10k once a lens, heater, casing, wipers etc were added. It had to go right up to a 35mm sensor to achieve it. That said the results were sublime. Some have suggested it used the Sony a7ii sensor / processor.
Too much gain, hence the ghost trails. I think your only answer might be to add some more light. What's happened here is you've dropped the shutter
but have then had to up the gain to compensate 
. The problem probably is your camera can't manage a bright enough picture in full colour with that light level with bot acceptable shutter and gain. You could try tweaking it slightly by dropping shutter to 6ms and gain to 50, but still no guarantees. At the extreme try 8ms / gain 50 but then you are on the edge of seeing shutter related issues with fast movement.The difference has nothing to do with the ISP, it's because of the lens aperture, F1.6 vs F1.0.
I did do the comparation using same F1.0 lens and same sensor SC850SL, but different SoC. What really matter are always the sensor and lens. The ISP has little impact. The so called "AI ISP" is just a marketing trick, everything must be "AI powered" in the current AI age
Sensor used in the 4MP model may be SmartSens SC465SL, I'm not sure about this one though. There's no any public info for this sensor, but I do got datasheet for it.
It should be released in late 2024, visible light QE about 90%, 850nm QE 50%. Type 1/1.88", 2576x1456 pixels. Specs not as good as SC850SL
It should be released in late 2024, visible light QE about 90%, 850nm QE 50%. Type 1/1.88", 2576x1456 pixels. Specs not as good as SC850SL
the biggest progres in last a few years are in mobile / sport cam / drone image sensor segments..
Quad Bayer sensors have revolutionized the capabilities offered by mobile devices.
High resolution (48Mpx, aka 8K) for a day operation plus the ability to group 4 pixels into 1 larger one in the image for much higher sensitivity with lower resolution at night / low light conditions (12Mpx, aka 4K image).
All modern image sensor progress is here and lots of money funding into next generations...
F1.6 and F1.0 difference on the paper is huge.
In reality in cctv cams not..
I had F1.2 aperture (almost F1.0) 5442H versions (in 7442 chassis/optics) and the difference in image brightness at night wasn't huge...
Nothing like 54IR vs 34PRO / 54PRO now...
Full 7442 on the same sensor / optics was better than 5442H, but it have different SOC with much better processing (at night SSA mode worked little like always-on HDR on WizColor cams)..
I know that you are sensor / optics guy, but modern video processing technologies changed world of photo / video a lot..
Look what modern smartphones can do (especially highest models).
I am a camera (photography) guy, although I know there is huge development regarding phone cameras. There will never ever be a substitute for good glass and a large sensor, you cannot bend the laws of optics past a certain point. In the photography world I will take a fast aperture prime (fixed focal length) lens all day every day, not even a contest. Whilst I agree that a lot of things are getting the 'Ai' tag right now, rest assured, artificial intelligence is very real and will not be going away.
To compare the difference, you need to manually set them with the same shutter speed and gain value. Or they sure will have the same bright image when there’s enough light.
Yes, at this current stage, I only believe in sensor and lens size. Modem ISP and algorithm may help a lot in taking still photos, like deep space photography, but not that much with moving videos, like CCTV
CCTVCam
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AI will have an effect. It can be used to remove the jaggies and sharpen images including text. It can also be used to apply colour / light correction essentially output a raw file then apply a realtime adjustments. I'm not saying the latter is how it handles lighting, but it's certainly within the realms of possibility. Text enhancement / jaggie reduction is almost certainly going to be a given on a camera labelled to have AI.
The effect of Aperture is to enhance depth of field. I wouldn't expect to see a difference in jaggies just blur based on dof. Given there's no difference in zoom, the Jaggies are almost certainly the result of processing artefects and the fact they're reduced / missing on the AI camera suggests it's processing them out by either more intelligent use of the codec or interpolation of the missing pixels to smooth the image.
The effect of Aperture is to enhance depth of field. I wouldn't expect to see a difference in jaggies just blur based on dof. Given there's no difference in zoom, the Jaggies are almost certainly the result of processing artefects and the fact they're reduced / missing on the AI camera suggests it's processing them out by either more intelligent use of the codec or interpolation of the missing pixels to smooth the image.
Yes, the comparison was done in full manual mode. The difference wasn’t huge
There is huge difference in AI video processing performance on latest mobiles (I use iPhone 17 pro max) and sport cams (latest insta360 / DJI cams) and those hik / Dahua ai-isp cams..
WizColor looks like 3-4 years old AI video processing taken from older mobiles / sport cams.
They have huge space to progress here. And they will in next generations
Please remember that cctv cams are much lower volume and lower price market than mobiles / sport cams. So Dahua / hik are always using older / cheaper tech (1 or 2 gen older)
Thanks to @steve1225 and others with far more knowledge than me on the details of the technology. It’s becoming clear this is a very different animal.
After the 2nd night of what I thought would be fairly simple testing like I’ve done hundreds of times, I’m still perplexed at the digital noise in low light.
It’s clearly different than we’ve seen with the 5442 series.
*note I’m talking about human/vehicle/critter movement in motion video. Still shots are awesome but alas meaningless.
Daytime is great. With some rather odd (compared to the 5442) settings and with with the “HDR” effect you can achieve some very good dynamically rich images. Deeper colors, better shadows, more brilliant, better perceived depth, and sharp.
And at night with enough light, (as seen in my back door install) it can also perform quite well.
But turn out the added off-camera lights at night in a dark to semi-dark scene and I’m really struggling with the fuzzy digital processed noise vs blur.
As there are few nighttime motion videos posted so far with low light, and without added ambient light @Chokolinho ‘s back patio being the best example, I’m guessing others are struggling too.
I need a couple more days (nights) to really spend the hours needed to try all of the various setting combinations and provide a true detailed comparison to the 5442H-ZHE in the latest scene I have it mounted in.
I HAVE discounted the original “softness” we first saw, as with some basic setting manipulation and each successive FW release the camera is extremely OVER sharp if anything.
* Special note to clarify: I’m now testing the ZE. The fixed focus AS that I mounted at the back door seems to be a bit easier to adjust and get a quality image with less/acceptable digital fuzz. But this is true of most any fixed vs VF lens within a series.
After the 2nd night of what I thought would be fairly simple testing like I’ve done hundreds of times, I’m still perplexed at the digital noise in low light.
It’s clearly different than we’ve seen with the 5442 series.
*note I’m talking about human/vehicle/critter movement in motion video. Still shots are awesome but alas meaningless.
Daytime is great. With some rather odd (compared to the 5442) settings and with with the “HDR” effect you can achieve some very good dynamically rich images. Deeper colors, better shadows, more brilliant, better perceived depth, and sharp.
And at night with enough light, (as seen in my back door install) it can also perform quite well.
But turn out the added off-camera lights at night in a dark to semi-dark scene and I’m really struggling with the fuzzy digital processed noise vs blur.
As there are few nighttime motion videos posted so far with low light, and without added ambient light @Chokolinho ‘s back patio being the best example, I’m guessing others are struggling too.
I need a couple more days (nights) to really spend the hours needed to try all of the various setting combinations and provide a true detailed comparison to the 5442H-ZHE in the latest scene I have it mounted in.
I HAVE discounted the original “softness” we first saw, as with some basic setting manipulation and each successive FW release the camera is extremely OVER sharp if anything.
* Special note to clarify: I’m now testing the ZE. The fixed focus AS that I mounted at the back door seems to be a bit easier to adjust and get a quality image with less/acceptable digital fuzz. But this is true of most any fixed vs VF lens within a series.
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Yes there is really no taming these at the moment, we are reaching the same conclusion at this point. Unless tuning out this auto processing brings these back closer to the 5442, then I suspect the sensor may well be the limiting factor here. We are finding the limits and beyond of what they can do at night, unless close range of 10-15 or less the onboard IR of LED is not enough. I have secondary LED coverage from another camera on one of mine and even that doesn't help much, once the shutter is fast enough they will required serious floodlight power to assist. I have 4000 lumen LED floodlight as backup on one and it needs all that power if the shutter is below 4ms.
Right now I suspect firmware will only go so far, the bullet versions probably make more sense as they have the edge on IR and LED power. I like that these have dual illumination, but at night in medium to longer range scenarios it can be quite the ball of fuzz!
Just a side note on the sharpening, I now have mine essentially on 0 and find this works OK, never been big on sharpening but do have other cams set to 5-25 depending.
Sixto
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- May 26, 2017
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That's some great discussion in the past few hours. Learning a lot about these sensors.
Last night I was second guessing myself in that I should have tried at least one T58PRO in the five, for one of the front cameras that has a full view of the front of the house/street with 150 watts of porch light and a street light. I may get one to test.
I use these 5 cameras more for overview viewing on 65" 4K OLED TV during the day, than worrying about intruders. In the 8+ years of 5442/5231s never had an intruder but there's always a first time!
You guys think T58PRO at night would be bad? Daytime would add much? Talking full view of the front of the house & street. Just curious. I may get one to play.
Last night I was second guessing myself in that I should have tried at least one T58PRO in the five, for one of the front cameras that has a full view of the front of the house/street with 150 watts of porch light and a street light. I may get one to test.
I use these 5 cameras more for overview viewing on 65" 4K OLED TV during the day, than worrying about intruders. In the 8+ years of 5442/5231s never had an intruder but there's always a first time!
You guys think T58PRO at night would be bad? Daytime would add much? Talking full view of the front of the house & street. Just curious. I may get one to play.