Would appreciate guidance on camera install locations

[lipelliot]

Hello!

I would really appreciate some advice on where to install cameras and which cameras would fit my needs. I've lurked for a while and tried to answer the basic questions below, I hope it isn't so much text that I get no replies

Purpose:

1. The primary objective is to have cameras pointing around the exterior of a 2 story house to be able to know where the kids are on my ~1/3 acre corner suburban lot.
   1. This is a less lofty goal than to visually identify an intruder, so at least at first I'm hoping to put up 5 or 6 cameras, just to obtain visibility of my yard and improving the system as needed next year.
2. Obviously the system will double as security cameras in the event of intrusion, but that's not common around here.
3. A stretch goal would be to have visibility of the park I'm adjacent to (400ft to the NW) so I can see if the kids have run over there.

DORI goals: I'm aiming for between Observe and Recognize.

Current cameras: I have an Amcrest 2mp wifi flood light over the garage, and a mix of freestanding Foscam and Amcrest wifi cameras inside.

Plan:

1. Run ethernet to all the corners of the house and install cameras to be able to see every common play place at a glance.
   1. My first thought was turrets at each corner, the flood over the garage, and a doorbell cam, but I don't think that'll be enough coverage.
2. I will also build a NAS/NVR (i5-12400, 32GB RAM, room for 8 HDD) and run BlueIris.

Ask for Help:

1. I'm struggling with all the different cameras and models, even when only looking at EmpireTech. There seems to be no guide on which models are from which year, what the model numbers mean, etc. I was looking at the new IPC-T54PRO-ZE because it had the white light as well as IR and 2 way audio, and initial reports on here seemed to say it was a good camera.
2. Where to place the cameras?
   1. the west side isn't used much so it can be a blind spot (for now)

I've attached a terrible MS paint of my property (it's a google map that I've doodled over so it's true to scale), and some rough measurements.

• property lines are ~115ft long
• Driveway is 40ft long and slightly downhill.
• Garage is 25ft "tall" (driveway side), and 20ft deep (to the house).
• House is 35ft wide by 30ft tall
• NW corner of the house is almost at 3rd story height because of the walkout basement.

Thanks for the help!

 

[lipelliot]

I'm assuming the cameras will have ~90° FOV.

I think the south side is fairly easy, one camera in the SW corner pointed SE (covers the front door at ~30', the walking path, and most of the front yard), another one in the SE corner pointed SW.

The north side is really challenging my spacial reasoning skills. I can't just replicate what I do on the south side, partly because of the notch where the garage and house meet creates a blind spot and there's a door there, but also because I need to have better visibility at the NE corner since that's a favorite play area for the kids, and there will soon be a shed over there. Maybe I just need to add a 2nd camera at the NE corner, have one pointed NE and one NW, or would it be better to get one of those dual lens 180° (IPC-Color4K-T180)?

 

[Holbs]

If the primary purpose of the cameras you are looking into is for watching children... more so concerned about daylight hours? Or after sun goes down or 2:00am?

 

[lipelliot]

If the primary purpose of the cameras you are looking into is for watching children... more so concerned about daylight hours? Or after sun goes down or 2:00am?

Well, typical kid hours not middle of the night, but I'm mid latitude (~45°) so in summer it's bright until 9, but winter is dark before 5, so it's a mix of both. I'd prefer to have decent nighttime visibility, but it's not the most critical. Can you explain the logic of what you're thinking? (if it was daylight only, I'm thinking higher MP would be better, right?)

 

[Holbs]

Well, typical kid hours not middle of the night, but I'm mid latitude (~45°) so in summer it's bright until 9, but winter is dark before 5, so it's a mix of both. I'd prefer to have decent nighttime visibility, but it's not the most critical. Can you explain the logic of what you're thinking? (if it was daylight only, I'm thinking higher MP would be better, right?)

What I have learned with IP cameras in my time with IPCT and my own venture down the DIY security camera road...
Sensor size of a camera matters for it's purpose.
By default, I think of 1/2.8" for daytime / well lighted areas only. Can it see at night? Sure. Could you tell if it was your neighbor Bob, Bigfoot, or Elvis past 10-20 feet? Nope. Sensor size too small to bring in enough light to determine who or what it is at night.
By default, I think 1/1.8" for both daytime and nighttime. Larger sensor. Allows more light in to see more in detail.
Even better... 1/1.2" for nowadays.
But... each increase of sensor size = more $$$.
And yes.. 1/2.8" is smaller than 1/1.2" thought the look of the numbers seems opposite.
Once you figure out what sensor size you will run with, this determines your model to pursue.

 

[lipelliot]

What I have learned with IP cameras in my time with IPCT and my own venture down the DIY security camera road...
Sensor size of a camera matters for it's purpose.
By default, I think of 1/2.8" for daytime / well lighted areas only. Can it see at night? Sure. Could you tell if it was your neighbor Bob, Bigfoot, or Elvis past 10-20 feet? Nope. Sensor size too small to bring in enough light to determine who or what it is at night.
By default, I think 1/1.8" for both daytime and nighttime. Larger sensor. Allows more light in to see more in detail.
Even better... 1/1.2" for nowadays.
But... each increase of sensor size = more $$$.
And yes.. 1/2.8" is smaller than 1/1.2" thought the look of the numbers seems opposite.
Once you figure out what sensor size you will run with, this determines your model to pursue.

Thank you, the explanation is much appreciated.

I received 2 quotes from security companies, who each wanted to install their $600 cameras that do less than a $200 dahua, but that's the price point that's expected from the budget, so I may a well spend it! Are there recommended 1/1.2" turrets?

Also, any suggestions on camera positioning?

 

[Holbs]

Me...personally:
Walkout Basement Door gets a Dahua IPC-T54IR-ZE.
Deck Door gets a Dahua IPC-Color4K-T180 4K Full-Color
Side Door corner gets a Dahua IPC-T54IR-ZE

If wanted driveway:
a.) immediate area gets a IPC-Color4K-T180 4K Full-Color if only worried about 10-20' distance and 180 view
b.) narrow view but fantastic distance, Dahua IPC-T54IR-ZE
If wanted front door:
a.) tons of options such as either model or other Dahua models.
b.) I personally like the Dahua Villa models which are not spoken much of because more 'niche'. But is nice to have dedicated panels throughout the house to see/hear the front door camera & intercom + on the DMSS mobile app.



so that is slightly over $1,000 in camera hardware.
Someone will have to run data networking cable to each camera. My data networking cable company charges as a base reference $200 for material & labor, per run. But is negotiable depending how irritating I may or may not find you and challenges of wire installation. Some places could take 2x or 3x's longer to install.
You will also need to purchase a NVR. Recommend Dahua of course.

 

[lipelliot]

Me...personally:
Walkout Basement Door gets a Dahua IPC-T54IR-ZE.
Deck Door gets a Dahua IPC-Color4K-T180 4K Full-Color
Side Door corner gets a Dahua IPC-T54IR-ZE

If wanted driveway:
a.) immediate area gets a IPC-Color4K-T180 4K Full-Color if only worried about 10-20' distance and 180 view
b.) narrow view but fantastic distance, Dahua IPC-T54IR-ZE
If wanted front door:
a.) tons of options such as either model or other Dahua models.
b.) I personally like the Dahua Villa models which are not spoken much of because more 'niche'. But is nice to have dedicated panels throughout the house to see/hear the front door camera & intercom + on the DMSS mobile app.

View attachment 230948

so that is slightly over $1,000 in camera hardware.
Someone will have to run data networking cable to each camera. My data networking cable company charges as a base reference $200 for material & labor, per run. But is negotiable depending how irritating I may or may not find you and challenges of wire installation. Some places could take 2x or 3x's longer to install.
You will also need to purchase a NVR. Recommend Dahua of course.

Thank you.

Planning to get help running the cables, or hire a contractor. I've had one quote so far and each run, including labor and materials, is $600! These are not complicated runs either, unfinished basement into an attached unfinished garage. I've got another quote incoming soon, hopefully that will be much more reasonable.

I hadn't considered a 180° camera for the back and driveway, interesting. I'm struggling a little with that idea because I don't know how well the 180° cameras will see the corners in the backyard, and the dead center over the driveway (EmpireTech website doesn't have any images of real world examples). Since they're 3.6mm instead of the variofocal like the IPC-T54PRO-ZE, would that mean that some distances in the yard would be blurry? Also they also don't have IR, so that would be a big decline in dark vision, right? Maybe that's why I was thinking about the T54PRO, and more of them.

 

[Holbs]

Thank you.

Planning to get help running the cables, or hire a contractor. I've had one quote so far and each run, including labor and materials, is $600! These are not complicated runs either, unfinished basement into an attached unfinished garage. I've got another quote incoming soon, hopefully that will be much more reasonable.

I hadn't considered a 180° camera for the back and driveway, interesting. I'm struggling a little with that idea because I don't know how well the 180° cameras will see the corners in the backyard, and the dead center over the driveway (EmpireTech website doesn't have any images of real world examples). Since they're 3.6mm instead of the variofocal like the IPC-T54PRO-ZE, would that mean that some distances in the yard would be blurry? Also they also don't have IR, so that would be a big decline in dark vision, right? Maybe that's why I was thinking about the T54PRO, and more of them.

 

[tmxv4128]

Thank you.

Planning to get help running the cables, or hire a contractor. I've had one quote so far and each run, including labor and materials, is $600! These are not complicated runs either, unfinished basement into an attached unfinished garage. I've got another quote incoming soon, hopefully that will be much more reasonable.

I hadn't considered a 180° camera for the back and driveway, interesting. I'm struggling a little with that idea because I don't know how well the 180° cameras will see the corners in the backyard, and the dead center over the driveway (EmpireTech website doesn't have any images of real world examples). Since they're 3.6mm instead of the variofocal like the IPC-T54PRO-ZE, would that mean that some distances in the yard would be blurry? Also they also don't have IR, so that would be a big decline in dark vision, right? Maybe that's why I was thinking about the T54PRO, and more of them.

I have a Color4K-T180 camera both in front and behind my house. I think they work great. I grabbed a few clips here for you to see. In front of the house the camera's lights are off--only a single streetlight for illumination. This was during a wind storm this week, so sorry for the loud wind noise. For the T180 in back of the house, the area is completely dark at night, so I have the warm LED lights of the camera turned on. Last night the fog was rolling in (I'm 10 miles in from the ocean), so take that into account. The image is usually very clear on a good night.

 

[lipelliot]

Amazing, thank you both. You really can't see a seam between the images. It's frustrating that the T180 doesn't have IR, though.

For the NW corner, I'm considering a PTZ. It's home position will be over the yard, but I can swivel it to the side yard to confirm the fence is closed or zoom a little towards towards the park if I'm wondering where the kids are. Is there a common recommendation for that?

 

[Holbs]

I think PTZ's are great! Of course, does come with the spendier cost.
And the realization that PTZ's have a smaller sensor (2.8's?). They still work at dark night, but it's not best-of-the-best. Would have to supplement with spotter cameras that have the job of spotting dark night alerts and then have PTZ move into action.
Why do PTZ's have smaller sensors? I just purchased the newest PTZ6 series for $800+. A PTZ that has a 1.8 or larger sensor, the price would be $1,700'ish or even higher. Boils down to what us puny users can afford.

 

[Holbs]

Amazing, thank you both. You really can't see a seam between the images. It's frustrating that the T180 doesn't have IR, though.

For the NW corner, I'm considering a PTZ. It's home position will be over the yard, but I can swivel it to the side yard to confirm the fence is closed or zoom a little towards towards the park if I'm wondering where the kids are. Is there a common recommendation for that?

As for why the T180 doesn't have IR.. you have to think of the reason why the T180 exists.
I have theory! The T180's were made for getting the best image & video for a short distance only, not 50' or 100' distance. Think front door or porch or immediate front yard area only. There are other cameras that have the dedication for longer distance purpose.