B54PRO-Z4E first impression

[bigredfish]

Ditto. It always helps to have more folks testing in various scenes with various light conditions.

 

[alekk]

Am updating FW on the 54PRO Z4 today to the 1028 release.

A note: To our resident photog guy @alekk : You were right and I was wrong on the softness out of the box.

I'll wrap up the testing of the 54PRO Z4 DAYTIME later today. I have too many cameras in Test and I need to put a few to bed.

Before the FW update, here's the last of what I'm seeing DAYTIME on the 0827 FW.

• It can't match the 5442 Z4 sharpness and image quality during the day
• Building on the previous settings here are my MAX SHARP settings compared to the same std 5442 settings as above

My Take: Its acceptable during the day but nothing to write home about

NEW MAX SHARP settings 54PRO-Z4


Vs the std settings on the 5442-Z4

Let me know what you think about FW1028 - again, I like it.

Sharpness=80 is a LOT ... but you have a Z4, so maybe more needed with that. I saw diminishing returns above 50 for daylight stuff.

Also, I noticed that Iris=65 ... and with telephoto, you'd expect less depth-of-field ... so running fully open could be an issue ... but looks like decent depth-of-field in your images ... so you could try increasing that ... which will obviously allow an increase in shutter speed and/or reduction in gain.

 

[bigredfish]

Let me know what you think about FW1028 - again, I like it.

Sharpness=80 is a LOT ... but you have a Z4, so maybe more needed with that. I saw diminishing returns above 50 for daylight stuff.

Also, I noticed that Iris=65 ... and with telephoto, you'd expect less depth-of-field ... so running fully open could be an issue ... but looks like decent depth-of-field in your images ... so you could try increasing that ... which will obviously allow an increase in shutter speed and/or reduction in gain.

I played with Sharpness from 15 up to 80. The final pics are at 80 and you can see no appreciable extra noise or sharpness for that matter.
The pics are there to see.
I found anything over 30 (where I have it set now), makes little difference

 

[alekk]

Yes, the 5442 definitely is sharper, but for overall daytime quality I am liking the 54PRO more and more. Colors are a lot better, and the tonal range is far superior. Shadows have detail and aren't just black. Also, no need for WDR compensation, since the camera is providing some wizardry in the background. Now if only the nighttime quality would be equally positive. I still have hope for night settings, but I think I've reached the limit on what I can do. I've tried just about every tweak I could think of. It is going to be interesting to see if setting up the B54IR-Z4E-S3 tonight will validate a lot of what I have hypothesized. I appreciate the effort you have put in testing the camera. It helps to affirm that I am not simply going crazy. ha ha

Yea, I've mentioned that the T54PRO is definitely doing some shadow boost ... but seems to be "reasonable" and not WDR'ish look.

Try doing snapshots with backlight=OFF versus HLC=1 ... notice any difference, especially when there is a lot of dynamic range present.

 

[alekk]

I'm planning to swap the B54PRO-Z4E for the B54IR- Z4E- S3 today and test the IR output tonight. The recordings I have compared the two cameras have shown the Z4E-S3 to be superior when using the built-in IR. I want to take a closer look at that--especially since the B54PRO settings have been defying conventional logic.

I only had time for some very quick tests last night with an external IR illumintor, but comparing the "non-4" versions of those two cameras, I was a puzzled by the results (kinda along the lines of "defying conventional logic") ... so I need to do some more testing.

So just letting you know @tmxv4128 that you've got company! ;-)

BTW, one challenging thing when comparing these camera's is while we an "lock/match" the shutter speed ... and iris=100 should be the same F/1.2 on both ... but we don't know if the "gain scales" match up ... and nighttime pictures are almost impossible to do with gain=ZERO ... and similarly with NR=0.

Since it's difficult to have identical (basic) settings, it's not that easy to assess the possible difference in sensor/lens ... plus, of course(!) processing.

 

[bigredfish]

FWIW I'm done testing the 54PRO at night in color. In fairness the 5442 Z4 needs more light to run in color in my scene also.
Without some serious 5000+ lumen white light assistance its just not the right camera for night color at 50 or so feet. It needs just as much extra light as the 5442 to run color at night to get a usable image. Just a different noise profile/type

I am gonna switch over to B&W/IR tonight to compare to @tmxv4128 's testing and against my already mounted 5442-Z4. But I will have the extra 30 candle power from my turn of the 19th century street light.

 

[tmxv4128]

In preparation for tonight's test comparing the B54IR-Z4E-S3 to the B54PRO-Z4E, I just finished mounting the B54IR-Z4R-S3. I took a few screenshots from the recordings of the cameras, and I must say, they look quite similar. The B54PRO has the edge though in color and tonal range. First pic is the B54PRO-Z4E from 11:38am today. The Second picture is the B54IR-Z4E-S3 with HLC-1 "on,"as it is on the B54PRO (12:53pm). The third pic is when I turned the HLC-1 "off" (12:55pm)

 

[CamCrazy]

In preparation for tonight's test comparing the B54IR-Z4E-S3 to the B54PRO-Z4E, I just finished mounting the B54IR-Z4R-S3. I took a few screenshots from the recordings of the cameras, and I must say, they look quite similar. The B54PRO has the edge though in color and tonal range. First pic is the B54PRO-Z4E from 11:38am today. The Second picture is the B54IR-Z4E-S3 with HLC-1 "on,"as it is on the B54PRO (12:53pm). The third pic is when I turned the HLC-1 "off" (12:55pm)

If the sign on the S3 is sharper or easier to read, it isn't by much, very close I would say. Pro image no doubt has a nicer look to it, will await the night images, hopefully with a visitor!

 

[looney2ns]

Am updating FW on the 54PRO Z4 today to the 1028 release.

A note: To our resident photog guy @alekk : You were right and I was wrong on the softness out of the box.

I'll wrap up the testing of the 54PRO Z4 DAYTIME later today. I have too many cameras in Test and I need to put a few to bed.

Before the FW update, here's the last of what I'm seeing DAYTIME on the 0827 FW.

• It can't match the 5442 Z4 sharpness and image quality during the day
• Building on the previous settings here are my MAX SHARP settings compared to the same std 5442 settings as above

My Take: Its acceptable and maybe more vibrant and bright during DAYTIME, shows highlights better, but nothing to write home about

NEW MAX SHARP settings 54PRO-Z4
View attachment 231949 View attachment 231950 View attachment 231951

View attachment 231952 View attachment 231953 View attachment 231954 View attachment 231955

Vs the std settings on the 5442-Z4
View attachment 231956 View attachment 231957 View attachment 231958 View attachment 231959


Final with the latest 1028 FW. I don't see a huge difference. I did increase the Sharpness to 30 (double) and turned NR OFF. Still results below

54PRO

View attachment 231970 View attachment 231971 View attachment 231972


5442 Z4

View attachment 231973 View attachment 231975 View attachment 231974

To these old eyes, the Z4 S3 wins during the day.

 

[CamCrazy]

Am updating FW on the 54PRO Z4 today to the 1028 release.

A note: To our resident photog guy @alekk : You were right and I was wrong on the softness out of the box.

I'll wrap up the testing of the 54PRO Z4 DAYTIME later today. I have too many cameras in Test and I need to put a few to bed.

Before the FW update, here's the last of what I'm seeing DAYTIME on the 0827 FW.

• It can't match the 5442 Z4 sharpness and image quality during the day
• Building on the previous settings here are my MAX SHARP settings compared to the same std 5442 settings as above

My Take: Its acceptable and maybe more vibrant and bright during DAYTIME, shows highlights better, but nothing to write home about

NEW MAX SHARP settings 54PRO-Z4
View attachment 231949 View attachment 231950 View attachment 231951

View attachment 231952 View attachment 231953 View attachment 231954 View attachment 231955

I can almost guarantee you have motion blur in those 54Pro images, shutter will need to be lower than 2 to stop that, try 1.5 or ideally 1.

Currently I am running my car monitoring Pro at 0.7ms. It will sharpen up the freeze frame then. Give it a try if you haven't already, disable NR also and sharpness low as you can go. On firmware 1028 my personal opinion is that they do not like NR on and also sharpening detracts from the image quality. I would go NR off and sharpening 0-5 during the day. I can get tack sharp freeze frame with shutter below 1ms, when the Pro is behaving itself

 

[alekk]

In preparation for tonight's test comparing the B54IR-Z4E-S3 to the B54PRO-Z4E, I just finished mounting the B54IR-Z4R-S3. I took a few screenshots from the recordings of the cameras, and I must say, they look quite similar. The B54PRO has the edge though in color and tonal range. First pic is the B54PRO-Z4E from 11:38am today. The Second picture is the B54IR-Z4E-S3 with HLC-1 "on,"as it is on the B54PRO (12:53pm). The third pic is when I turned the HLC-1 "off" (12:55pm)

Just to be clear (and I think you are saying this), I prefer the 5442 with no HLC ... but the 54PRO with HLC=1.

I.e. try comparing the T54PRO with HLC on/off ... and I assuming you are running the latest 10/28 firmware.

Also, when doing comparisons, try to do as close as possible time-stamps during the day, since the movement of the sun obviously influences things.

 

[tmxv4128]

Just to be clear (and I think you are saying this), I prefer the 5442 with no HLC ... but the 54PRO with HLC=1.

I.e. try comparing the T54PRO with HLC on/off ... and I assuming you are running the latest 10/28 firmware.

Also, when doing comparisons, try to do as close as possible time-stamps during the day, since the movement of the sun obviously influences things.

Yes, I agree. It's just that I had the HLC turned on with the recording of the B54PRO, so I needed to show how the HLC had an effect on the image. Comparing at the same time of day is important; for example, this is from a few minutes ago. Screenshot of the B54PRO first and the S3 second. HLC is turned "on" with each of them. The cameras definitely react differently to the changing light and shadows.

 

[alekk]

Sorry I lost track ... but are you running 1028 firmware ... as that definitely does a better job with the with colors IMHO.

Also, when you put that 54PRO back up, do a side-by-side of HLC on/off ...

BTW, the grass in the foreground is a good example of what I'm calling the "shadow boost" from the 54PRO - those areas are brighter than the overall increase in brightness ... and (in that example) they are starting to get a bit WDR'ish ... but generally, I like the effect.

I assume no way to mount these side-by-side ... because that really allows 'ya to do a real-time shootout! ;-)

 

[bigredfish]

***I posted my last/Best Color samples on the previous page post #99

Here's my Best so far, B&W/IR captures with comparison to my 5442 S3 Z4
*Note: the 54PRO has both more ambient light AND IR light due to the street light and my mini-PTZ which picked me up and tracked with its weak IR

Go full size on the image captures, I think you'll see the difference. "Bright" isn't necessarily "better" on moving targets. In fairness the 54PRO isn’t bad, both will get you good captures in IR mode.

54PRO Z4






View attachment 192.168.1.110_ch5_20251107185058_20251107185135.mp4
View attachment 192.168.1.110_ch5_20251107185326_20251107185334.mp4




5442 Z4 S3




View attachment 192.168.1.110_ch8_20251107185038_20251107185052.mp4

View attachment 192.168.1.110_ch8_20251107185318_20251107185328.mp4

 

[Chokolinho]

Z4E

***I posted my last/Best Color samples on the previous page post #99

Here's my Best so far, B&W/IR captures with comparison to my 5442 S3 Z4
*Note: the 54PRO has both more ambient light AND IR light due to the street light and my mini-PTZ which picked me up and tracked with its weak IR

Go full size on the image captures, I think you'll see the difference. "Bright" isn't necessarily "better" on moving targets

54PRO

View attachment 232010 View attachment 232011

View attachment 232012 View attachment 232013 View attachment 232014 View attachment 232015 View attachment 232016


View attachment 232006
View attachment 232007




5442 S3

View attachment 232020 View attachment 232021 View attachment 232022 View attachment 232023


View attachment 232018

View attachment 232019

S3 still the king.

 

[bigredfish]

The odd thing is that on the 54PRO slowing shutter, less Gain, etc does the opposite of what we’re used to in masking the noise at night. It wants a much brighter image, but IMHO it still falls short on moving targets. Which fits with my previous comments.

I see the same thing on the standard 54PRO ZE which I’ll post in the main new model 5X59 Wizcolor thread started by Steve.

​

 

[tmxv4128]

Oh--My--Gosh... Here is the test of the B54PRO-Z4E vs. the B54IR-Z4E-S3. You be the judge. Each had identical 0-8.33ms shutter setting.
The B54IR-Z4E-S3 blew the competition away, and it wasn't even close. Be sure to view the video in 2160p 4k on YouTube.

 

[bigredfish]

Nicely done sir.

I'm afraid no matter how much AI/Digital Eye of newt and 3rd toe of lizard they put into the FW, they're not going to change the fact that there is likely a sensor issue.

 

[tmxv4128]

I dropped the shutter of the B54IR-Z4E-S3 to 4ms to do a run test. Here ya go!

 

[bigredfish]

LOL nice.
Showoff, I'm not gonna go jogging for you again

I'm running 5ms on mine currently